019: Help Me, Help You
For Suicide Prevention Week, musician and author Kelsey Grimm joins us on this special episode to share the vulnerable and heart-wrenching parts of her story, remind us that we are all worthy of help and talk about how we can show up for others.
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+ 019 Help Me, Help You - Kelsey Grimm Transcript
Tim: Okay, Well, this is Tim Timmons with another 10,000 minute experiment.
Emmoe: We're winning.
Tim: And to my right's Emmoe Doniz.
Emmoe: But you looked to your left and I'm not going to let that slide. I'm not going to let it slide. He swerved to the right, people. But that's me, hello.
Tim: Okay. To my far left, Chris.
Chris: Oh, hey guys.
Tim: Cleveland.
Chris: Yo.
Tim: I was looking at you-
Emmoe: [Crosstalk 00:00:21] It's the sun. It's the sun.
Tim: ... And your family yesterday.
Chris: Yeah?
Tim: Yeah. And just... I just was noticing that your oldest has long hair.
Chris: Oh, yeah.
Tim: I was like, that's so cute. Both you guys are long hairs.
Chris: So, I say in my shows, I say, "He looks like me. He acts like me. He aggravates his mama like I do. He's just a little carbon copy."
Tim: Yeah.
Chris: It's amazing.
Tim: Yeah.
Kelsey: How old is he?
Chris: Eight.
Kelsey: Oh, wow.
Chris: Third grade.
Tim: Oh, he's a cute little dude.
Chris: Oh.
Tim: You got three cute little humans.
Kelsey: Oh, that's fun.
Chris: Man. I know. It's wild right now.
Kelsey: [Crosstalk 00:00:49] So, you've got three too, then?
Chris: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kelsey: Dude.
Tim: [Crosstalk 00:00:49] Speaking-
Kelsey: And yours are older. So...
Chris: They are. We just got out of-
Kelsey: [Crosstalk 00:00:54] You're surviving.
Chris: ... The baby phase.
Kelsey: The littles. Yeah.
Chris: Yeah. So, we have human beings now.
Kelsey: We're still in that phase. It's-
Tim: [Crosstalk 00:01:01] You're totally-
Kelsey: [crosstalk 00:01:02] Wow.
Tim: ... In that. And speaking of who you are, this is Kelsey Grimm-
Kelsey: [Crosstalk 00:01:04] Yeah, sorry.
Tim: ... Everybody.
Kelsey: Getting ahead of myself. Hi guys. Thanks for having-
Tim: You got three little humans. Little humans though.
Chris: How old?
Kelsey: So they're one, three and four.
Chris: Woo. Yeah. [You're 00:01:16] in it.
Kelsey: Yeah. We're in it.
Tim: Kelsey and Caleb are in it right now.
Chris: And you still got a couple years of being in it.
Kelsey: Yes, we do.
Chris: Which is fine.
Kelsey: Yeah. It's fine. Everything's fine.
Tim: It's...
Chris: Everything's fine.
Kelsey: I'm fine.
Emmoe: Oh boy.
Kelsey: Everything's fine.
Chris: I'm fine. You're fine. We're all fine.
Tim: So, my sister. Yeah, everything's fine.
Kelsey: Everything's fine.
Tim: We're fine.
Kelsey: We're fine here. Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Chris: Isn't... Wasn't there a movie called that, a few years ago?
Kelsey: If not, there should-
Tim: [Crosstalk 00:01:37] There should be. Yeah.
Kelsey: ... Definitely be one about a mom who's drowning.
Tim: [Crosstalk 00:01:39] Yeah. Yeah. Right.
Chris: I think that's basically of this family that's barely keeping it together.
Kelsey: Yep. That's us. It's like that dark-
Chris: [Crosstalk 00:01:44] Everything's fine.
Emmoe: Comedy.
Kelsey: We are that movie. Oh boy.
Tim: So, when Kelsey walked in my house, she saw there was a little note at the bottom of the stairs that says I'm out working out. No screens. Do some work. Just stuff that you're telling kids to do. Get your crap done. It's basically what she's saying.
Chris: [Crosstalk 00:01:58] Do they do it?
Kelsey: Make your own breakfast. It was just-
Tim: But, that's your next... That's next season.
Kelsey: I can't even fathom it.
Tim: That's your next season.
Chris: Wow.
Kelsey: Make your breakfast.
Tim: Yeah.
Chris: See, we got there pretty early because my kids wake up with the sun.
Kelsey: Oh, mine do too.
Chris: So, we were like, ah, we're going to put-
Tim: [Crosstalk 00:02:12] End Christmas now.
Chris: And judge me all you want. I don't freaking care. We just put the processed food low-
Emmoe: [crosstalk 00:02:17] Oh my gosh.
Chris: ... And say go for it guys. I'm-
Tim: [Crosstalk 00:02:22] The processed food low.
Chris: ... Not getting up-
Kelsey: [Crosstalk 00:02:22] Oh my goodness.
Chris: ... At 05:30 AM with you.
Kelsey: Yeah. Yeah.
Chris: And so, since all of our kids were little, we come down, and they've got pancakes and watching Mickey Mouse or whatever.
Tim: Yeah.
Chris: And we're like, I don't know what time you woke up, but it is what it is.
Kelsey: It is what it is. Yeah.
Tim: Yeah.
Chris: Yeah.
Tim: Well, my kids, they did some memorization this morning. We're in Isaiah right now. So, they're memorizing Isaiah. So...
Chris: Are you joking or-
Tim: [Crosstalk 00:02:42] Any who, next.
Emmoe: Ever. Anyways.
Kelsey: [Crosstalk 00:02:44] Also. Hold on. I just want to point out-
Tim: [Crosstalk 00:02:46]... Is not true.
Tim: They're like the Bible. What is that? Isaiah. Is that a guy?
Chris: Yep.
Tim: It's a book in the Bible.
Chris: We came to church yesterday.
Tim: Yeah.
Chris: The whole family.
Tim: Yes. So... Yeah.
Chris: And we brought our kids into the main service.
Tim: Yeah.
Chris: And I realized about halfway through, this is the first time in eight years of having children that we've all come into the service together. Our first time ever.
Tim: It was powerful.
Chris: So, my kids don't know what to do. They're... My daughter's just leaned back.
Emmoe: [Inaudible 00:03:12].
Chris: She was jamming.
Emmoe: [Crosstalk 00:03:13] She's feeling it.
Chris: I was like, that's funny. Started taking a video. I was just enthralled watching them experience it. It was interesting.
Tim: Poor Kelsey. She was like, shh. Oh, honey. Honey... You quiet down. Quiet down.
Kelsey: And then I'm... My phone's blowing up. I'm getting a text from somebody in the nursery that Collins is screaming her bloody lungs out again.
Tim: Yesterday?
Kelsey: Back and forth a hundred times.
Tim: Aah.
Kelsey: Yeah. I mean...
Tim: That's your jam, every week.
Kelsey: Every week.
Tim: Yeah.
Chris: It's fine.
Kelsey: I hear about five words of Mike's sermon.
Chris: Yeah.
Kelsey: That's about it.
Tim: Yeah. Well, I mean, I don't want to brag, but did you hear about the drummer yesterday?
Kelsey: No.
Chris: He had a heavy mallet hand.
Emmoe: [Crosstalk 00:03:43] No.
Chris: That's all I know.
Kelsey: What?
Tim: He had... There's a guy named Tim Timmons. Super hot. That drummed yesterday for [Jordan 00:03:47] Church because-
Kelsey: [Crosstalk 00:03:47] What. You did? Is that why I didn't see you?
Tim: Yeah. It was because that's like, what? That's terrible. I think they didn't even have it up in the house.
Kelsey: I thought it was a track.
Emmoe: [Crosstalk 00:03:54] That's so funny. Interesting. Interesting.
Kelsey: [Crosstalk 00:03:56] See. I wouldn't even know. I wasn't in the building long enough to know.
Tim: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I was just... Again, it was just... It was perfection. People thought, oh, that is a track.
Kelsey: I think that's great.
Tim: No.
Emmoe: [crosstalk 00:04:01] That is a track.
Tim: We didn't have any drummers. All of our drummers are on tour.
Chris: [Crosstalk 00:04:04] Parker Jo was jamming. That's all I know. PJ was jamming out.
Kelsey: Oh my gosh.
Tim: Had one good riff. It was perfect.
Kelsey: [Crosstalk 00:04:10] One good riff.
Tim: Then I was done. Then I was done.
Emmoe: I love it.
Chris: You played that SPD pad.
Tim: Yes I did.
Chris: It was great.
Tim: Okay. Well, wow. We are...
Emmoe: We're rolling.
Chris: Welcome to our podcast.
Emmoe: [Crosstalk 00:04:21] We're [inaudible 00:04:21].
Chris: This is pretty much it.
Emmoe: True. Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Tim: Okay. So, and the turn that I'm about to do is so strong.
Emmoe: It's strong.
Tim: I mean, this is a-
Chris: [Crosstalk 00:04:29] We're going to connect the dots. I promise
Tim: A real strong turn, right now. Well, Kelsey, you sang like you're a [sanger 00:00:04:36].
Chris: Which is different than singing.
Tim: Yes.
Kelsey: [Crosstalk 00:04:38] Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Tim: No, she can sang.
Chris: Yeah.
Tim: I mean, were you an artist by your self ever?
Kelsey: Never. Mm-mm (negative).
Tim: But you were with the girls?
Kelsey: Yes. I was in a girl group once.
Chris: What was it called?
Tim: We were label mates for a little bit.
Kelsey: Oh, I didn't...
Tim: Do you know that?
Kelsey: I wasn't even really aware of that.
Tim: Yeah. Yeah. We were-
Kelsey: [crosstalk 00:04:51] Yeah. I...
Tim: ... I was a drummer.
Kelsey: It's hard for me to remember.
Tim: 1 Girl Nation.
Kelsey: Yeah. Yeah.
Chris: 1 Girl Nation.
Kelsey: Yeah.
Tim: I remember them saying there's a girl band on our label. I'm like, yes there is.
Chris: Was it a Christian group?
Kelsey: Yes, it was.
Chris: Was it the Christian version-
Kelsey: [Crosstalk 00:05:05] It was like the Spice Girls.
Chris: ... Of Cheetah Girls or something? The Spice Girls.
Kelsey: There were five of us.
Tim: So, who were you?
Kelsey: So, when I auditioned for the group and made the group, I came here to Nashville. I'm from Illinois, originally. Came here, auditioned for this group, and at the end of week long live audition situation, I made the group. Came as a blonde, left as a redhead.
Tim: Yeah.
Chris: Oh, wow.
Kelsey: So, they literally-
Tim: [Crosstalk 00:05:26] That's right.
Kelsey: ... Dyed my hair a deep, dark red, because they needed everyone to fit a certain-
Emmoe: Spice.
Tim: Yeah.
Kelsey: Yeah. Spice.
Emmoe: Interesting.
Tim: Oh my gosh. So what were you?
Emmoe: [Crosstalk 00:05:33] You were Ginger Spice.
Tim: Red hot Spice?
Kelsey: So I was Ginger Spice.
Emmoe: She's Ginger Spice.
Kelsey: Ginger Spice.
Chris: I love it.
Emmoe: I always wanted to be Sporty Spice.
Chris: I feel Ginger kind of... She's made a life for herself outside of the Spice Girls.
Kelsey: [Crosstalk 00:05:42] Yeah. She has.
Chris: She's into racing and stuff.
Kelsey: [Crosstalk 00:05:44] Well, she was the first one to quit.
Chris: Yeah.
Kelsey: Then I was too. The first one to quit-
Emmoe: [Crosstalk 00:05:49] Stop.
Kelsey: ... My group up. Hey, I'm just following Ginger Spice all the way.
Emmoe: Whoa.
Tim: All the way.
Emmoe: The hair dye was prophetic.
Tim: And you still have your hair red, which is so cool.
Kelsey: Well, it's not anymore.
Tim: Oh.
Kelsey: I... I'm sick of it.
Chris: Tim's color blind as well.
Emmoe: It's just his left eye. It happens.
Kelsey: I know. It's just-
Chris: Okay. What year was this?
Emmoe: This was in 2012 to 2014.
Chris: Wow.
Emmoe: Early 2014.
Tim: Yep.
Emmoe: It was a traumatic time. I'm glad to be not in that space anymore.
Chris: We've all had those.
Tim: Hey everybody. This is Tim Timmons. Hey, thank you so much for listening and being a part of this. I specifically want to thank Alexa and Anna Jay for jumping in and supporting us. We don't have a Patreon, but we do have a way for you to give. You can go to 10000minutes.com and there's a little button that says donate. You can give a tax deductible gift of one time. Or if this has been helpful for you, you can give a little bit or a lot every single month and help us continue what we're doing with this. All right. So, as I said, we're on episode 19 and this week is pretty powerful. We've got an author, a singer in the big time YouTube band, Caleb and Kelsey. They make out, by the way. She's a mother, she's a wife and a great friend.
Tim: This is Kelsey Grimm. And it's also Suicide Prevention Week. And I wanted this story to be told in light of all the things that are going on around the idea of suicide, depression, and anxiety. And here's what I love about this episode, specifically. If suicide or depression or anxiety is anywhere a part of your story or not, or you know, people who swim in these waters, I think this will be really helpful for you and everyone around you. This is going to give us some tools to know how to love people really well. So, I think you're going to love hanging out with us for these next few minutes.
Tim: Okay. So, you were in that band-
Kelsey: Yes.
Tim: 1 Girl Nation-
Kelsey: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Tim: ... When we were partners-
Kelsey: Right. [Beknownst 00:07:33] to me.
Tim: ... In labels.
Kelsey: Yeah.
Tim: Partners. And then, go. Kelsey just came out with a book, everybody, as well.
Kelsey: I did. Well, it's not out yet.
Tim: It's not out yet?
Kelsey: Almost. Next month.
Tim: I keep seeing the book on the internet.
Kelsey: I know. People are tired of it already.
Tim: Yeah.
Kelsey: I mean, I'm tired of it already. My God. We're posting about this constantly.
Tim: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Kelsey: And it's not even out yet.
Tim: But it's called Over It.
Kelsey: It's called Over It. Yeah. I don't know how far back I should go, but, I'm a pastor's kid.
Tim: Okay.
Kelsey: And if you're a pastor's kid, then I don't have to explain to you the fishbowl effect.
Tim: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kelsey: And just kind of this idea that everyone's watching you and everyone expects you to be a certain thing. And whether you like it or not, there's this unspoken thing.
Emmoe: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kelsey: And you have to be this unspoken thing-
Tim: Yeah.
Kelsey: ... And have it together. But I-
Tim: [Crosstalk 00:08:18] But it's the whole narrative of-
Kelsey: The whole narrative.
Tim: ... Of the religion-
Kelsey: [Crosstalk 00:08:21] Yeah.
Tim: ... That we've kind of grown up in was this.
Kelsey: Yeah.
Tim: Yeah.
Kelsey: Have it together.
Tim: Yeah.
Kelsey: And people are watching you.
Tim: Yeah.
Kelsey: And you are held to a higher standard. And so I think I started to believe at a really young age that people needed me to be something.
Tim: Yeah.
Chris: Hmm.
Kelsey: And it... That something needed to be put together and it needed to be clean and all the things. Look pretty. So, having understood that at a young age, there was just a lot of pressure.
Tim: Yeah.
Kelsey: I mean, a lot of pressure and constantly feeling this pressure to live into the expectations that I felt like people had of me, and it didn't play out well-
Tim: Yeah.
Kelsey: ... Ultimately. I went to a Christian school. College, that is, and I started dating and I started feeling this rebellion almost-
Tim: Yeah.
Kelsey: ... Bubbling up in me. I'd been the good girl for so long.
Tim: Yeah.
Kelsey: I mean, blindingly long.
Tim: Yeah.
Kelsey: It was not fulfilling, didn't... It's not that it wasn't who I was. I wanted to be good, but I was so tired of what it took to be good.
Chris: Hmm.
Kelsey: You know what I mean?
Tim: Yeah.
Kelsey: And so, when I got to college, I felt like that was my chance to step into myself. And I did it the wrong way. I was looking for an escape route and I found one and it happened to be a boy.
Tim: Yeah.
Kelsey: At that time, one thing led to the next and this person was abusive. Emotionally abusive, psychologically abusive, sexually abusive, and it was... It happened for a really long time.
Tim: Yeah.
Kelsey: And ultimately, he asked me... I think it was my junior year. He asked me to marry him and I felt trapped. I'd been in the relationship for so long.
Tim: Right.
Kelsey: I didn't feel like there was a way out-
Tim: [Crosstalk 00:09:47] Right.
Kelsey: ... And people were watching us.
Tim: Right.
Kelsey: He was a big head on campus. He wasn't a student anymore, but he worked for the university and I was in music and in the groups that represented the university.
Tim: Totally. So you were in deep.
Kelsey: Yeah. I was-
Tim: [Crosstalk 00:09:59] Yeah.
Kelsey: ...In it and people were watching us and people thought from what they saw on the outside that it was good and it was perfect. So, when he asked me to marry him, I said, yes. And it only got worse from there. And so, the abuse continued and the secrets continued because I couldn't tell anybody-
Tim: [Crosstalk 00:10:16] Yeah.
Kelsey: ... What was happening. And we were engaged for nine months. I endured hell over that period of time. And one particular weekend we had gotten in a fight and he physically locked me in a room, stood in front of the door, or-
Tim: [Crosstalk 00:10:29] Oh gosh.
Kelsey: ... Locked the door. That was the first time that I was like, okay, I've felt trapped for a long time, but now trapped-
Chris: Actually trapped. Yeah.
Kelsey: ... In every... Yeah. In every sense of the word. And I called my mom after he eventually let me out of that room and I told her I needed to come home and I needed help and that I wasn't okay.
Kelsey: And so, I did and I still... I never told my parents at that time what was happening in our relationship because I knew that they would've told me to leave.
Tim: Right.
Kelsey: I mean, duh-
Tim: Right.
Kelsey: ... They were my parents-
Tim: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Kelsey: ... They want to protect me.
Tim: Yeah.
Kelsey: But in my mind, I was still too deep to get out. So in my mind I was like, I can just... I can let them in a little bit so that they can know I'm scared-
Emmoe: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kelsey: ... And maybe they can help me.
Tim: Totally.
Kelsey: And buy me some time. And so that's exactly what they did. I mean, my mom told me that we could postpone the wedding and we could... This was February and we were getting married in May.
Tim: Enough time.
Kelsey: There was only a few more months.
Tim: Yeah.
Kelsey: After that conversation with my parents, I came back to school and I sat down across the table from him in a Starbucks.
Kelsey: And I... It just came out of me. I told him that I wanted out and then I knew I deserved better and that I wasn't going to take it anymore and that I wasn't going to marry him. And I mean, I got the news at the same moment that he did.
Tim: Yeah.
Kelsey: I was not aware in that moment going into that conversation that I was going to do that it was just... It was an out of body experience. And I wish I could tell you that the story got better from there. And that once I got out of that relationship, things started to put themselves back together, but the opposite happened. I mean, it was my senior year. I was in student teaching. It was February. I was graduating in May and I was engaged for nine-
Tim: [crosstalk 00:12:00] Yeah.
Kelsey: ... Months-
Tim: Right.
Kelsey: ... Up to that point. And so, I was planning to live my life with this person. And when that moment happened, I was like, oh my gosh, where do I go from here?
Tim: Totally.
Chris: Yeah.
Emmoe: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kelsey: I had to start over.
Chris: Yeah.
Kelsey: So, I finished school and moved back home into my parents' house because I had nowhere else to go. Got a job as an office manager in town. And when I say that there was nothing left of me at that point. There was nothing left of me.
Tim: Mm.
Chris: Wow.
Kelsey: I was a shell of a person. And if you know me, you know that-
Tim: Yeah.
Kelsey: ... Strong willed.
Tim: Yeah.
Kelsey: I'm...
Tim: Yeah. Yeah.
Kelsey: I make [inaudible 00:12:31].
Tim: [Crosstalk 00:12:31] Little mean. Yeah.
Kelsey: ... About anything. Yeah. Little mean-
Tim: Yeah.
Kelsey: ... Sometimes.
Tim: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Kelsey: I have strong opinions and-
Tim: [Crosstalk 00:12:38] Yeah.
Kelsey: ... A strong personality.
Tim: Yeah.
Kelsey: And I was not that person anymore.
Tim: What would you tell that girl right now? If you were looking at her, she was sitting here. What would you want to say to her heart? Even in the middle of it.
Kelsey: I think what I would tell her is that she's worthy. Worthy of so much more. That who she is good enough and not because someone else told her to be that way. But you don't have to change anything about yourself for another person.
Tim: Yeah.
Chris: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kelsey: If someone is trying to change the fabric and the fibers of who you are, there's something wrong with that person. Not you.
Chris: [crosstalk 00:13:11] Yeah.
Tim: Right. That's huge.
Kelsey: And I changed every bit of myself for him. I wanted him to love me. And I thought that I could make him love me. And he never did. And so... I... This local radio station reached out to me that summer when I was home living with my parents and acting wild. I met a guy at work, dated him. He ended up being a closet alcoholic.
Tim: Mm.
Kelsey: And that was, yeah. I... It wasn't even traumatic because I wasn't dating him for a relationship.
Emmoe: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kelsey: I was just rebounding hard.
Tim: Totally.
Emmoe: Mm-hmm (affirmative)
Kelsey: And medicating with all that I could get my hands on. And so, did that. Dated another guy at the tail end of that summer. And then this local radio station called me and said that they had heard about this group in Nashville.
Chris: Mm.
Kelsey: This girl group. They were called to look for girls in the area who fit this bill. And they were like, we thought of you. I had kind of competed locally-
Tim: [Crosstalk 00:14:03] Yeah.
Kelsey: ... For several years. And so they were like, we thought of you and thought you'd be perfect. You should go. You should do this. And I was like a Christian girl group. If anybody knew the state of my life and what it-
Tim: Kelsey.
Kelsey: ... Was right now.
Tim: Kelsey.
Kelsey: This is a joke.
Tim: Yeah.
Kelsey: No, I cannot do that. And so, I think one Sunday I was sitting in my parents' church and I was like, oh my gosh, this cannot be my life. I literally have nothing to lose. I may as well just go try.
Chris: Yeah. Yeah.
Kelsey: I'll always wonder if I don't do it. So I-
Chris: I've always wanted to be a ginger.
Kelsey: Always wanted to be-
Chris: [Crosstalk 00:14:33] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Kelsey: ... A ginger.
Tim: [Crosstalk 00:14:35] Ginger Spice. Yeah.
Kelsey: Always wanted to know what it would be like.
Tim: Yeah. Yeah.
Kelsey: So, I came and I auditioned and I made the group and they gave us six weeks to move here.
Chris: Oh my God.
Kelsey: So, I packed my bags and I moved to Nashville and I did not know a living soul here. Not a soul.
Chris: Wow.
Kelsey: And they moved me into this house with these four other girls who-
Tim: [Crosstalk 00:14:50] I remember that.
Kelsey: ... Were from four different states.
Tim: Yep.
Kelsey: None of us knew each other. I think there was a place in my brain that was like, okay, this is actually a perfect new beginning.
Chris: Yeah.
Emmoe: Mm-hmm (affirmative)
Kelsey: No one knows me here.
Tim: Right.
Kelsey: No one knows my story.
Tim: Right.
Kelsey: No one knows what I've been through. I can just turn the page-
Emmoe: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kelsey: ... And start over and pretend like what happened then is a thing in the past.
Chris: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Tim: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kelsey: But the problem is that things that you don't deal with-
Tim: Yeah.
Kelsey: ... In the past-
Tim: Yeah.
Emmoe: Right. Right.
Kelsey: ... Will catch up with you-
Tim: Yeah.
Chris: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Emmoe: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kelsey: ... In the future or in the present. And that's exactly what happened.
Tim: Mm.
Kelsey: So I came here with all of that baggage and all of these secrets that I'd never told anybody about what happened with that man-
Tim: Yeah.
Kelsey: ... In college. And I found alcohol here. I'd never... I grew up in an environment where alcohol was a sin. So, I didn't have any experience with drinking until I moved to Nashville. And then I found alcohol in Nashville and I was like, wait, this feels good.
Tim: Yeah.
Chris: Mm.
Tim: This numbs everything out.
Chris: [Crosstalk 00:15:42] Yeah, right.
Kelsey: This is perfect. Everything hurts less when I'm drinking.
Chris: Mm.
Tim: Yeah.
Emmoe: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kelsey: And so, I drank a lot and I partied a lot and I kind of fell into the wrong crowd and the girls I was living with wanted to kick me out because they didn't know me.
Tim: Yeah.
Chris: Mm.
Kelsey: And they were like, this girl is crazy.
Tim: [Crosstalk 00:15:59] Yeah. She [cray-cray 00:15:59].
Kelsey: She is going to ruin anything before it starts. And so, they were right. I think I was blazing a path of destruction because at that point in my life, I didn't think there was a human on the planet who cared.
Chris: Mm.
Kelsey: Who cared enough anyway, to ask me, where is this coming from?
Chris: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kelsey: Are you okay?
Chris: Mm.
Emmoe: Right. Right.
Kelsey: Are you okay?
Chris: Mm.
Emmoe: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kelsey: And I wasn't okay. I mean, I wasn't okay. And so, there's another story. I ended up at a house party here in Nashville. The people that I was with that night found out that I'd never done shots before. And so, I was their little guinea pig.
Chris: Uh-huh (affirmative).
Kelsey: And I did a bunch of shots that night. Ended up throwing up in the bathroom, off the kitchen and passing out on the floor of the den-
Chris: Oh my gosh.
Kelsey: ... At the front of the house. And the next thing that I remember and it's very hazy, but two men carried me upstairs in a dark house that I didn't know where I was.
Kelsey: And I woke up at four o'clock in the morning with nothing on. That was rock bottom.
Chris: Mm.
Kelsey: I mean that was...
Chris: I see.
Kelsey: I to this day, don't have any recollection of what happened, but you can surmise.
Chris: Yeah.
Kelsey: I think when you become a shell of who you are, you just... You think that your worth lies in what everybody else around you is telling-
Tim: [crosstalk 00:17:14] Yeah.
Emmoe: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Chris: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kelsey: ... You it is. And at that point, what I had been told is that I was just a body to be used and abused and tossed around and you can change my appearance. You can make me play a part in a group and I will... I'm just...
Tim: Yeah.
Kelsey: I'm a puppet.
Tim: Totally.
Kelsey: And I dance to the marionette strings of the person pulling them.
Tim: Wow.
Kelsey: And that's what I did. And I did that because I didn't know who I was anymore.
Tim: Right. Yeah.
Emmoe: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Tim: And so I allowed other people to tell me-
Emmoe: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kelsey: This is who you are-
Tim: Yeah.
Kelsey: ... Because this is who we need you to be.
Tim: Yeah.
Chris: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kelsey: One night. I mean, after that night, my manager had sat me down and said, the girls want you out. I don't know what's going on with you. You don't have to talk to me, but you have to talk to somebody.
Tim: Yeah.
Kelsey: Or you got to pack your bags. And I was like, but you can't send me home.
Tim: Yeah.
Kelsey: And he was like, well, I can't keep you here.
Tim: Yeah.
Kelsey: One night, super late... Which the irony of all of this. I was driving down Nolensville Road. This was a decade ago-
Tim: [crosstalk 00:18:07] Yeah.
Chris: Uh-huh (affirmative).
Kelsey: ... Where nothing was out there. Nolensville is where I live now.
Tim: Yeah.
Kelsey: So, it's really crazy. A full circle moment. I'm living full of so much life now. But this particular night in time I was driving this dark two-way road. It was pouring down rain.
Tim: Mm.
Kelsey: And there wasn't a soul on the planet who had any idea what I had been through.
Tim: Yeah.
Kelsey: And I was alone.
Tim: Yeah.
Kelsey: I mean, in every sense of the word.
Tim: Yep.
Kelsey: And my dad called me in the car that night, and I heard the buzz of my cell phone and I reached over and grabbed it. And I saw that it was him and I was desperate. I mean, I was desperate. And my dad, if you know him, then you know that he doesn't get angry. And I have a very, very special relationship with him. But that night, when I answered the phone, he was one of the ones screaming.
Tim: Hmm.
Kelsey: So, there was a desperation from him too.
Tim: Yeah.
Kelsey: We don't know who you are. We're worried about you. We didn't raise you to be this way, Kelsey. You are throwing your life away.
Tim: Yeah.
Kelsey: You're throwing your life away. And your mom and I have tried. We tried all summer and all you do is self destruct. And I was crying and he was crying and it was pouring down rain. It was dark and I think he hung up on me. I think that was the first and only time-
Tim: Yeah.
Kelsey: ... That my dad's ever hung up on me.
Tim: Yeah.
Kelsey: And when he did that, I tossed the phone to the seat and I just... I don't know that it was a conscious decision that I made in that moment. Maybe it was, but I just allowed my car to start to veer over that-
Tim: Mm.
Kelsey: ... Yellow line. And I saw a pair of headlights way, way down the road. And I saw this bridge. There was just a couple of guardrails. I don't know that there was actually water underneath it, but there was a definite-
Tim: Yeah.
Kelsey: ... Bridge. And I was like, this feels like the only option. And I can't believe I'm doing... I... Again, all of this happened very quickly.
Tim: [Crosstalk 00:19:51] Yeah.
Kelsey: But all of these thoughts were just running through my mind. This could be so quick and so simple and so easy and it could all be over. And so I veered over the yellow line and I don't know what would've happened, to be totally honest, but my phone buzzed again. And I looked over and it was face up this time and I saw that it was my dad again. I almost didn't answer, but I did. I reached over and I grabbed the phone and when I picked it up, he was crying-
Tim: Mm.
Kelsey: ... A different kind of-
Tim: Yeah. Yeah.
Kelsey: ... Tears in that moment. And he was just, "I'm sorry, baby. I'm sorry, baby. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Kelsey. Kelsey. Kelsey." And I jerked the wheel back over-
Tim: Mm.
Kelsey: ... And got back into my lane. And about that time, this other car that had been coming, passed me. And I was back in my lane and I mean, I still... I couldn't see. I was sobbing hysterically and he was like, "Baby, pull over. Where are you?" And I pulled over and he was like, "I don't recognize you. And I know you don't either. Help me help you."
Tim: Mm.
Chris: Hmm.
Kelsey: "Let me in [Kelse 00:20:53]. Let me be your daddy. I've always held that spot in your life. Let me hold it now." And I was like, "I can't. I can't. You don't even know."
Tim: [Crosstalk 00:21:03] Yeah. Right. Right.
Emmoe: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kelsey: "You have no idea what I've been through in the last year." And he was like, "I don't. You're right, but would you take me there?"
Kelsey: And I was like "Right now? No."
Tim: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kelsey: "I can't."
Emmoe: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kelsey: "I can't." And so, that night I ended up at my manager's house and he called a local counseling place. And I went the next morning and because he gave me an ultimatum. He was like, "Listen, you can show up at eight o'clock in the morning tomorrow or you can go home."
Tim: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Kelsey: "It's up to you."
Tim: Yep.
Kelsey: And so, obviously my choice was made. I was going to counseling.
Tim: Right.
Kelsey: And I went. And it was the start of a very long road-
Tim: Mm.
Kelsey: ... To healing, finally. I mean, weeks in. Maybe months in, to be honest, I don't really remember. I told him everything that had happened in that relationship. I'll or forget that day. I couldn't look at him the whole time. And he had been kind of telling me for weeks leading up to that I was going to sit down and tell him everything that happened.
Kelsey: And I was like, I can't tell you-
Tim: [Crosstalk 00:21:58] Mm.
Kelsey: ... What happened. And he was like, "But you will." And I was like, "Okay, but I won't." And then I went in that day and I... It was almost like I stared at a spot on the floor.
Emmoe: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kelsey: As he sat across the room from me. And once I started, I couldn't stop.
Chris: Yeah.
Tim: Yeah.
Kelsey: It was just like, it all was exploding out of me. And I just... I could... I never left that spot on the floor. And when I was done talking and I'd told him everything, there was just this silence. And I know I couldn't... My eyes couldn't leave the floor because I was so full of shame. And I blamed myself for what happened-
Emmoe: [Crosstalk 00:22:31] Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kelsey: ... That it took him saying my name to get me to peel my eyes off the floor. And I'll never forget, when I looked up at him from across the room, he just had tears streaming down his face.
Kelsey: And I was caught off guard by that a little bit. And he was like, "I'm so sorry."
Tim: Mm.
Kelsey: And I was like, "No, you." And he was like, "No, no, no. Hear me out. I am so sorry that that happened to you." He was like, "Kelsey, we have a term in this community, in therapy that we use to describe what you went through and you're not going to like it, but the word is rape. That man raped you. And he took advantage of you and he manipulated you and controlled you for a year and a half of your life. And I'll spend the next six weeks, six months, six years, as long as it takes before you reach a point where you can accept that and accept that it wasn't your fault and move forward from it." And I can remember arguing. And I was-
Emmoe: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kelsey: ... Like, "No, but you don't." And he was like, "No, no, no, no. You don't understand." And I was like, "Okay." Several months later, I finally got the courage to tell my parents.
Tim: Mm.
Kelsey: And these are baby steps of healing-
Tim: [Crosstalk 00:23:40] Yeah.
Kelsey: ... And just being known and letting-
Tim: Yeah.
Kelsey: ... People in. Then my brothers... No. One of my brothers at the time had gone to college with me and was there while I was in that relationship. So, he kind of had a front row seat-
Tim: [Crosstalk 00:23:50] Yeah.
Kelsey: ... To our relationship at least more than anybody else did.
Kelsey: [crosstalk 00:23:52] Yeah.
Emmoe: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kelsey: So, I got the chance to tell him what had happened. And it was a really dark time. This is a story... This... Ultimately, this is a story of redemption.
Chris: Yeah.
Kelsey: I mean, God was always there, even when I wasn't aware of it. I'm married now.
Emmoe: Hmm.
Kelsey: I have three beautiful babies and I think healing is an ongoing thing and always will be.
Tim: Yeah. I mean, that's trauma and grief as we've been talking about a lot lately.
Chris: Hmm.
Kelsey: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Tim: That you just don't get over.
Kelsey: Right.
Tim: But you start processing through that and getting to a resolve-
Kelsey: [Crosstalk 00:24:20] Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Tim: ... At some point. I mean... So, your book is called Over It: Forgetting Who You're Expected to Be and Becoming Who You Already Are.
Kelsey: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Chris: Mm.
Tim: Okay. So, I got a question. So, this week that we're doing this. That this is coming out is Suicide Prevention Week. And, I've had a lot of suicides around me lately, and a lot of attempts around me lately.
Chris: Wow.
Tim: It's just a wild, wild few months. And one of my questions for you was... So, I asked you what you'd say to your younger self, and you were saying that you're worthy. It's all the things that you're going to say in your book, probably.
Kelsey: Yeah.
Tim: I haven't read your book. I'm sure it's wonderful. It's not even out yet. Let's be honest.
Kelsey: It's not even out yet. No.
Tim: But, do those words work? So, I think of a girl right now that I'm in a daily text... Younger girl that I love so much. Just... God told me [at 00:00:25:06]... Years ago. This girl, you get to walk with her for her life. And she's had a lot of these thoughts and done a lot of things to try. And those are the words I want to say is... And I do say is, you are so awesome. You are worthy of being alive and you're loved. All these same things.
Kelsey: Yeah. Right.
Tim: Do words work or do they not work? Because at that point, when you were that young or however old you were-
Kelsey: Yeah. I was 23. Yeah 23.
Tim: What would've worked? Is it just hitting the bottom? Is it words? Is it people asking you questions?
Kelsey: That's a good question.
Tim: And there may not be an answer to this. I don't think there's a universal answer.
Kelsey: I feel like a little bit of everything you just listed. For me, I think if someone just would've come to me and sat me down and said, I love you no matter where you are right now. I don't know what's happened, but I love you and you are enough as you are in this moment.
Chris: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kelsey: You don't have to be anything, but who you are. I love you because of who you are, not because of who you aren't.
Emmoe: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Chris: Mm.
Kelsey: I think that would've gone a long way for me.
Emmoe: Mm.
Kelsey: Personally. At that stage of my life. But, I think what I would say is the world needs her.
Emmoe: Mm.
Kelsey: The world needs her here. The world wants her here. She was created to take up space here. Leave a footprint, leave several footprints, even if it's messy and muddy. And-
Emmoe: Mm.
Kelsey: ... I think it's important to realize a couple things. Your past mistakes, don't define your future steps.
Chris: Hmm.
Kelsey: Your past mistakes can speak into your future steps.
Tim: [Oof 00:26:34].
Kelsey: If that makes sense.
Tim: Yeah.
Kelsey: I wouldn't be who I am today if those things hadn't happened the way that they did. I think, there was a long time in my life where if you had asked me, [Kelse 00:26:43], if you could go back and change it all or do it all over again, would you?
Tim: Yeah.
Kelsey: Would you do it differently? And I think there was a time where I would've been like, yes, because it was so freaking hard.
Tim: Yeah. Yep.
Chris: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kelsey: And it was so awful. And it was so dark. I don't think I would say that anymore. I know I wouldn't say that anymore. I would say, I had to go through all of that to appreciate what I have now.
Chris: Mm.
Kelsey: I mean, it sometimes takes being in the dark to appreciate what the light means, and what the light carries. And that's hope and healing and-
Tim: Yeah.
Kelsey: ... All of these things that we experience on the other side of grief and trauma. So, you're doing all the right things for people like that, who are in a season of life where it just feels without hope. One of the phrases that I cling to all the time. To this day is that life never stays the same. So, what you're going through now-
Emmoe: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kelsey: ... It will not always be this way.
Tim: Yeah.
Chris: Yeah.
Kelsey: Things change. People change. Scenarios change. Circumstances change. It won't always hurt this bad.
Emmoe: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Tim: Yeah.
Chris: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kelsey: I mean-
Emmoe: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kelsey: ... I'm living proof of that.
Chris: Yep.
Tim: Yeah.
Kelsey: I thought it would always hurt.
Tim: [Crosstalk 00:27:42] Yeah.
Emmoe: [Crosstalk 00:27:42] Yeah.
Kelsey: That raw, open wound, bleeding out kind of hurt. And it doesn't. I think you're doing all the right things.
Emmoe: Mm.
Kelsey: She deserves to be here.
Tim: Yeah.
Chris: Hmm.
Kelsey: Not for any other reason, but that she's a child of God.
Emmoe: Mm.
Kelsey: Already, that makes her more than enough.
Emmoe: Yeah. And it seems like you had all the things said to you. They acknowledged who you were, and then you had someone acknowledged your pain.
Kelsey: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Emmoe: You had someone else who acknowledged reality. This isn't okay. You had all the angles of God being-
Kelsey: [Crosstalk 00:28:11] Yep.
Emmoe: ... Yes to that, and no to that.
Kelsey: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Emmoe: And there's a beauty in showing up for people authentically. So, if you're someone who can validate pain for someone-
Kelsey: [Crosstalk 00:28:20] Yes. That's huge.
Emmoe: ... And acknowledge that was so awful.
Kelsey: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Emmoe: So, that's all I can give today. I'm going to sit with you in that.
Kelsey: Right.
Emmoe: That's a big piece. You don't have to do-
Kelsey: [Crosstalk 00:28:28] Absolutely.
Emmoe: .... The whole thing for someone-
Kelsey: [Crosstalk 00:28:29] Right.
Emmoe: ... But that's a big piece for someone to feel less alone.
Kelsey: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Emmoe: Because there's a lot of parts of your story that I'm like, yes, that happened to me.
Kelsey: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Emmoe: I experienced that too. And it took a village. It took-
Kelsey: [Crosstalk 00:28:40] Yeah.
Emmoe: ... Many people to show up and be like, I'm the one who's going to fight for you. I'm the one who's going to-
Kelsey: [Crosstalk 00:28:46] Stand [inaudible 00:28:46].
Emmoe: ... Bring you into reality. Yeah. I'm going to be the one who just listens.
Kelsey: Yep.
Emmoe: All those people are so important.
Kelsey: Right. I think there's something to be said to... You mentioned this just a second ago. Creating space for people to be as they are, not showing up to fix it-
Tim: [Crosstalk 00:29:02] Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kelsey: ... Necessarily, but just showing up to sit with them in their pain.
Emmoe: Yeah.
Kelsey: And to sit with them while they unload and while they just... You give them space to be imperfect and messy, and that alone, I feel gives people permission to just be like, okay, I'm-
Emmoe: [Crosstalk 00:29:22] Yeah.
Kelsey: ... I'm okay. I'm okay.
Emmoe: Yeah.
Kelsey: But we don't often create space for each other.
Tim: Right.
Emmoe: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kelsey: To be messy and messed up without giving pointers or a step by step-
Chris: [crosstalk 00:29:36] Hmm.
Tim: [crosstalk 00:29:36] Totally. Totally.
Kelsey: ... Here's how to fix it. Sometimes the last thing you need is for someone to tell you how to fix it.
Tim: Yeah.
Chris: Yeah.
Emmoe: Yeah.
Kelsey: ... But to just sit there with you while you're in it.
Tim: Yeah.
Emmoe: Yeah.
Kelsey: The reality is, the sun will come up again.
Emmoe: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kelsey: It always does. So, waiting for that moment is sometimes all that that person needs you to do.
Tim: Yeah.
Emmoe: Mm-hmm (affirmative). And just being uncomfortable.
Kelsey: Yes.
Emmoe: It's scary to sit with someone like that-
Kelsey: [Crosstalk 00:29:58] Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Emmoe: ... But imagine how scared they are.
Kelsey: Exactly.
Emmoe: They are sitting with it all the time.
Kelsey: Exactly.
Emmoe: So, we just need people to be uncomfortable with us-
Kelsey: [Crosstalk 00:30:06] Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Emmoe: ... For a minute.
Kelsey: Yep.
Emmoe: For a few hours. For a season.
Kelsey: Yep.
Emmoe: For it to feel less alone.
Kelsey: Right.
Emmoe: But that's the part [we're 00:30:12] like, we don't know how to turn this around.
Kelsey: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Emmoe: It's... Well I know.
Kelsey: Mm-hmm (affirmative). And that's okay.
Emmoe: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kelsey: Yeah, totally.
Tim: We just had a friend commit suicide a few weeks ago.
Chris: Hmm.
Tim: And this awesome, crazy, cool guy. This amazing couple. And he's in the 60s and just... I mean, one of the servants of our whole neighborhood. Just this beautiful, beautiful man. Loves Jesus. I mean, just awesome. He's got kids, grown kids and grandkids and everybody's like, why? Was there foul play? What's going on here? How does this type of thing happen? But I think, as we look at things... And I don't know that story and none of us are ever going to really know that story, but it just made me think about guys specifically. How closed down guys are. It's like, yeah, oh, I'm great. I'm fine. I'm good. But you just don't know. Nobody would've known if they saw you on the street-
Kelsey: [Crosstalk 00:31:10] Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Tim: ... In that season. Nobody would've had a clue and some of that's in your court because it's-
Kelsey: [Crosstalk 00:31:18] 100%.
Tim: ... I got to be able to tell somebody and divulge some of this stuff. And it's also on everybody else in some ways of just going, hey, what's going on?
Emmoe: Yeah.
Tim: How do we see that stuff? I mean, I just... It's just got me thinking a lot lately and trying to look a little deeper into things. And literally I've been asking Jesus to give me different view into people in the season going. Oh gosh, help me see how you see people right now because I want to be able to call this out.
Emmoe: Mm.
Kelsey: It's a good reminder that you never know what someone is going through.
Tim: Yeah.
Kelsey: You never ever know what their story is, unless you ask them.
Emmoe: Yes.
Kelsey: And not just once. Over and over and over, because sometimes it takes really establishing a line of trust.
Tim: Right.
Emmoe: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kelsey: For someone to be like, okay, I'm not okay.
Tim: Yeah.
Kelsey: I've told you for months, maybe even years that I'm okay. I'm not okay. But you've established a trust with them where they feel like they can come to you and say that. It's a good reminder. You just...
Emmoe: Hmm.
Kelsey: You don't know what people are struggling with and you're right. People would've never known that I wasn't okay.
Tim: Right.
Emmoe: Yeah.
Kelsey: There's just this... And the pace of the life that we all live. I mean, in our-
Tim: [Crosstalk 00:32:27] Right. Right.
Kelsey: ... Culture, it's... We're moving at warp speed. People don't take time as much anymore to not be okay. Because most of us feel like we don't really get that choice. Well, we have to just keep going-
Tim: [Crosstalk 00:32:38] Yeah.
Kelsey: ... Because that's what we do and life moves on. And whether I'm okay or not, I have to do X, Y, and Z. I have to still mom-
Emmoe: [Crosstalk 00:32:44] Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kelsey: ... And I have to show up at my job. And I just wish a little bit more, that we could slow ourselves enough to sit with each other long enough to ask the question-
Emmoe: [Crosstalk 00:32:54] Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kelsey: ... Are you okay? If you're not, I hope you know, I'm here when you're ready.
Emmoe: Mm.
Kelsey: I think it would go a long way.
Tim: What did you believe to be true about God in those moments? What were you living out that you believed to be true about God? Not in your mind theology of going to Christian school, but in that moment as you're in your car, what would you say at the bottom of that was how you actually... What you believed to be true about God?
Kelsey: I think my view of God at time was really skewed. I think that just like everybody else around me needed something from me. I think I had that same mental relationship with God.
Tim: Mm.
Kelsey: If my life wasn't lining up to where I was an exemplary Christian or I wasn't walking in His way and I knew I wasn't.
Tim: Yeah.
Kelsey: That God kind of had to turn away from me-
Chris: [Crosstalk 00:33:43] Mm.
Kelsey: ... Because I was living in darkness. God never moved. Never shifted away from me. As a parent, this is... It's completely changed the way that I see God, because there is nothing that my kids could do.
Emmoe: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kelsey: Nothing that they could say or become, or that would change the way that I love them. And they don't have to do anything. I love them because they're mine-
Emmoe: Mm.
Kelsey: ... Because they are a piece of me-
Tim: [Crosstalk 00:34:13] Yeah.
Kelsey: ... Walking around in the world.
Tim: Yeah.
Kelsey: And I think if I could have just sat that little girl down. That lost person-
Tim: [Crosstalk 00:34:20] Yeah.
Kelsey: And just been like, Kelsey, God doesn't need anything from you. Everybody else in your life needs something from you. They need you to be something. God doesn't need anything from you. He just loves you. And he just wants to be with you because you are His. He cries for you because you're so sad and you're so broken and you're so lost. I think that would've changed so much for me, if I just could have seen God that way.
Tim: Yeah.
Emmoe: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kelsey: In that season. But at that point I still thought I had to clean up my act, for God to be able to turn his ear to me.
Emmoe: And I think that's key too. There's freedom in whoever might feel like that today. It's on them to undo what's been done to them.
Kelsey: Yes.
Tim: Mm.
Emmoe: Sometimes we're like, we have to get ourselves out of things.
Kelsey: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Emmoe: So, I'm like, well, if we did, we wouldn't need the spirit.
Kelsey: [Crosstalk 00:35:20] That's [inaudible 00:35:20].
Emmoe: We wouldn't need God. We wouldn't need people. I'd be self-sufficient. And I know there's certain situations where it is on you, what you'd like to choose, but-
Kelsey: [Crosstalk 00:35:29] Right.
Emmoe: ... There are things that just happen to you that you're like, I have to carry this out and that person got to move on.
Kelsey: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Emmoe: And so now I feel the pressure to undo-
Kelsey: [Crosstalk 00:35:37] Right.
Emmoe: ... What's been done-
Kelsey: [Crosstalk 00:35:38] Yes.
Emmoe: ... To me.
Tim: Mm.
Kelsey: Yep.
Emmoe: And so, then you feel so alone and then you have people being like, turn it around. And it's like, I'm trying.
Kelsey: Right.
Tim: Right.
Emmoe: But I'm by myself in it.
Kelsey: [Crosstalk 00:35:45] Don't you think I would?
Tim: Yeah.
Kelsey: Yeah.
Emmoe: And so, that beautiful freedom of you don't have to do anything.
Kelsey: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Emmoe: But, I also do want you to be. Just be. And I want you here. And I want to love you today and tomorrow. And there's freedom in that.
Kelsey: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Emmoe: But you don't have to undo today by yourself.
Kelsey: Right. So good.
Emmoe: Even though that's how it feels, because I get the PK life. I have to undo this before I share it. Should be processed and healed, and all these things. So it's not that [cringey 00:36:16] and-
Kelsey: [Crosstalk 00:36:17] Right.
Emmoe: ... It doesn't hurt my parents as much. And, it starts to get really dark.
Kelsey: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Tim: Mm.
Emmoe: Because you feel like you have... And that's a lie. Right? I can undo the shame-
Kelsey: [Crosstalk 00:36:28] Right.
Emmoe: ... By myself.
Kelsey: Right.
Emmoe: But that's where God comes through so many different people, and so many different ways of I'm just going to be someone who walks with you.
Kelsey: Yep.
Emmoe: For this season.
Kelsey: Period. Full stop.
Emmoe: Mm-hmm (affirmative). And that's so real, just the beautiful view of the way you see your kids is truly the heart of God-
Kelsey: [Crosstalk 00:36:47] Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Emmoe: ... For us. And in every scenario, even the ones we think we deserve
Kelsey: Right.
Tim: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Emmoe: Where it's... The... He truly is like, your mine. That's all it really comes down to.
Kelsey: Yeah.
Chris: I think they're saying it so well. I can relate, but I can't say it better. So...
Tim: Yeah.
Chris: Yeah.
Tim: Kelsey, thank you for sharing.
Kelsey: Thank you for having me.
Tim: I mean, I just think of my girl and I can't wait for her just to hear this. And I know there's so many people out there that we would not even be aware that have had these thoughts.
Kelsey: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Tim: I mean, all the way to the point of suicide.
Kelsey: Yeah.
Tim: Or anywhere in between.
Kelsey: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Tim: I mean, because this isn't just, oh, if you're just going to suicide. I mean, this is everything up to that point.
Kelsey: Yes.
Tim: From believing-
Kelsey: [Crosstalk 00:37:30] A series of events.
Tim: ... A lie about God and about you.
Kelsey: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Tim: All the way up to the place of ending it.
Kelsey: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Tim: I mean, it's really for all of us.
Kelsey: Yeah.
Emmoe: Hmm.
Kelsey: And I feel if we're all really honest with ourselves, we've all wandered to that place in our mind before. Would it be easier? Would we really do it? Maybe not, but, I think that's life. We walk through really, really dark things and sometimes to a point where we're like, I'm too tired to do this any anymore.
Tim: Yeah.
Emmoe: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kelsey: I just... I want to give up.
Tim: Yeah.
Kelsey: And so, for the people listening to this that are feeling that right now, you're not alone.
Emmoe: Mm.
Kelsey: You think you are, but you're not. I've been there more than once, and probably will be again.
Chris: Yeah.
Kelsey: That's the reality.
Tim: Right. Right.
Emmoe: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Tim: It's not a one and done.
Kelsey: Right.
Tim: Everything's great now. Yeah.
Kelsey: Right. It's not like once you've healed from it, you're like, okay, well I'm glad that'll never happen again.
Emmoe: Right.
Tim: You said a second ago that yeah, you think you're alone. I wonder if it's not a thinking thing. I wonder if it actually is a feeling.
Kelsey: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Tim: Letting the feelings drive a car versus truth.
Kelsey: Yeah. Oh a 100%.
Emmoe: Hmm.
Tim: I mean, maybe there are thinkers that would think it through.
Emmoe: Right. Well, my counselor would say, though it doesn't feel real-
Kelsey: [Crosstalk 00:38:49] Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Emmoe: ... But what you're fearing, you feel the fear. So it is real still.
Kelsey: Yes.
Tim: Right. Right. This is the reality.
Emmoe: So, there is still a truth to it that you feel alone. And you feel scared.
Kelsey: And your perception is your reality.
Emmoe: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kelsey: So, it almost doesn't matter.
Emmoe: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Tim: Yep. Totally.
Kelsey: If you feel it, it's true for you.
Emmoe: Yeah.
Tim: Yeah.
Kelsey: In that moment, you have to dig a little deeper and remind yourself what you know to be true. Even when your mind and your heart are telling you something otherwise. [Inaudible 00:39:15] more.
Tim: And you've done a lot of work-
Kelsey: [Crosstalk 00:39:17] Yeah. Oh man.
Tim: ... On restoring some of these things-
Kelsey: [Crosstalk 00:39:20] Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Tim: ... And digging through some of these things.
Kelsey: Oh yeah. I mean, reopening-
Tim: [crosstalk 00:39:25] Right.
Kelsey: ... Of wounds that I never wanted to go back and relive-
Tim: [Crosstalk 00:39:28] Right.
Kelsey: ... But sometimes that's necessary.
Tim: Yeah.
Emmoe: Yeah.
Kelsey: It's a necessary step. And also, for the people listening to this that have never been to therapy, please go.
Emmoe: Yeah.
Kelsey: Please go. There is no shame. It's so much braver to admit that you can't do it alone.
Tim: Mm.
Emmoe: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kelsey: It takes so much more courage to say, okay, I need help. You're not less of a person.
Tim: Yeah.
Kelsey: If you find yourself sitting in a therapy room or-
Emmoe: [Crosstalk 00:39:54] Yeah.
Kelsey: ... In the presence of a counselor, I would argue that you're more brave.
Tim: Yeah.
Chris: Hmm.
Tim: It's huge.
Emmoe: Yeah.
Kelsey: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Emmoe: And it's an action of true self love.
Kelsey: 100%.
Emmoe: I love myself enough that-
Kelsey: [Crosstalk 00:40:05] To do this.
Emmoe: ... I'm going to go find someone who can-
Kelsey: [Crosstalk 00:40:08] Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Emmoe: ... Affirm that.
Kelsey: Yep.
Emmoe: That I'm-
Kelsey: [Crosstalk 00:40:11] Sit in this space with me. Yeah.
Emmoe: ... Worthy of me. Talking about things.
Kelsey: Yep.
Chris: Hm. I think I'll just add for the guys too out there who are listening. It's not... This is not a gender thing. And I know you guys have been articulating this so well from your perspectives and that's why I've not said anything, because I'm like, everything I was going to say, it would come out of your mouth two seconds later. It's like, oh, thank God. I think I just want to encourage our guy listeners too, that so much of your story I've lived. From the broken engagement to the... My rebound years. I was on tour with some of the biggest artists in the world and just going crazy.
Emmoe: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Chris: Right. And same time I remember walking around drunk, Downtown Houston, lost. Had to call my dad in tears. And my family... Same type of family, have no idea what to do.
Chris: So, walked through very, very similar experiences there. Into adulthood, finding all of my identity in what I could offer.
Kelsey: [Crosstalk 00:41:18] Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Chris: ... And what I could do. And then stripping that back. And then I remember in the darkest time, this is the much larger story, but literally having these thoughts of I could just end it and it could be over.
Kelsey: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Chris: And then I think of my kids.
Tim: Mm.
Chris: And I think there's so many people and there's so many people I've known, and guys like you're talking about, your friends. There's so many pastors.
Tim: Yep.
Chris: There's so many people in ministry who say, God, I can't let people know what I'm feeling.
Tim: Yeah.
Kelsey: Yes.
Chris: And even my whole thing in the music that I make, is all about identity, value, and worth. And then I'm sitting here at home like I'm worthless-
Tim: [Crosstalk 00:42:03] Hmm.
Chris: ... And I'm nothing without doing all the stuff. I'm like, well, maybe it's just easier.
Chris: And so I want to reiterate just what you said. Where I found the most peace was when I went and talked to a professional about it. I have a degree in Psychology. So, I was diagnosing. I was like, I know what I'm going through.
Tim: Yeah.
Chris: From a Jesus angle and from a medical-
Tim: [Crosstalk 00:42:29] Clinical. Yeah.
Kelsey: Right.
Chris: ... Clinical angle. I had a big song that talked this about a handful of years ago and I started getting these emails. So many, that I started calling some of my psychologist friends and was like, hey, am I legally liable?
Emmoe: Hmm.
Tim: Right. Right.
Chris: For all of these suicide notes I'm getting.
Tim: Right.
Chris: I didn't know what to do with it.
Tim: Yeah.
Chris: And it really gave me a view of so many people need to know that their life has value, that their life has worth, that they were made intrinsically good just as they are.
Kelsey: That's so good.
Chris: And... I almost broke our cussing rule, but stuff happens. Life happens to us. Right.
Kelsey: Yeah.
Emmoe: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Chris: And it's not fair and it's nasty and it's ugly, but it does. And it takes a lot bravery to come out and talk about it and to share that with somebody. But there is freedom in that space. And just like you said, it's not something that just goes away.
Emmoe: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Chris: And you've seen really vocal advocates for mental health, then-
Emmoe: [Crosstalk 00:43:30] Yeah.
Chris: ... Commit suicide. There's multiple examples of that over the years.
Emmoe: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Chris: And so, this isn't something that we just fix and walk away from, but something that we have to be mindful of once we're attentive to it.
Kelsey: Yeah.
Emmoe: Yeah.
Chris: I know there were moments in my life when I didn't care who God was. I didn't care what they were saying.
Chris: I knew what was going on, but in the midst of it, I was like, well, screw it. I'm just doing what I'm doing.
Tim: Yeah.
Kelsey: Yeah.
Chris: And then there were moments when I knew these truths, but they just didn't feel true.
Kelsey: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Emmoe: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Chris: And, and sometimes-
Tim: [Crosstalk 00:44:01] Totally.
Chris: ... You have to have other voices speak that into you and show you. So, I just want to encourage the listeners that if you're in that space, to be brave enough, to step out and get help. And-
Kelsey: Yeah.
Chris: ... I'm sure we can provide resources on how to do that after-
Emmoe: [Crosstalk 00:44:17] Yeah.
Chris: ... The episode or whatever, but there's hotlines and there's groups and there's things all over the country that we can connect you to people to help. And I don't want to negate the power of prayer because this is the email I get all the time on people who've thought about suicide or tried it.
Chris: And they've tried to pray their way out of it, and can't. And I don't want to negate the power of that, but God has gifted professionals and he has created this science and given these people this knowledge that can help us. And so, we should trust God in them-
Kelsey: [Crosstalk 00:44:55] Say it louder.
Emmoe: Hmm.
Kelsey: Good.
Chris: ... To help us. So, I don't want our listeners to think that I don't believe in the power of prayer, because I do.
Tim: Right.
Chris: But I believe in the power of prayer, plus the people that-
Emmoe: [Crosstalk 00:45:04] Right.
Chris: ... He's put in our lives-
Tim: Yeah.
Chris: ... And equipped-
Tim: Totally.
Emmoe: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Chris: ... To help us.
Tim: Totally.
Chris: So, please don't be afraid of that.
Tim: Thank you, Chris. Thank you Emmoe. Thank you, Kelsey.
Kelsey: Thank you for having me.
Tim: Mm. Great.
Kelsey: Was a honor.
Tim: Kelsey, we're going to switch quick gears.
Kelsey: Okay. Let's switch. Shake it off.
Tim: Shake it off. Shake it off. Everything's fine. Everything is great.
Kelsey: Everything's fine. I'm fine. Everything's fine.
Emmoe: It's rich.
Tim: Kelsey, this is 10,000 questions and there aren't actually, technically 10,000 questions.
Kelsey: Oh. Okay.
Tim: It just for-
Kelsey: [Crosstalk 00:45:33] Is this one of those rapid response?
Tim: Oh, you're getting speed round, baby.
Emmoe: Yes. Yes.
Tim: So...
Kelsey: Okay.
Tim: I mean, I guess... We didn't even get into Caleb at all on this-
Kelsey: It's fine. We're still married. We're great. Everything's fine. See? [Inaudible 00:45:44].
Tim: I know. [Crosstalk 00:45:44] ... Everything's great.
Emmoe: Yay.
Kelsey: We're fine.
Emmoe: We'll put it in the notes.
Kelsey: Yeah.
Emmoe: There you go.
Tim: I have next week we're talking about marriage-
Kelsey: [crosstalk 00:45:51] Oh. Okay.
Tim: ... And marriage issues. So...
Chris: [Inaudible 00:45:52] be great on it.
Kelsey: Got whole other stories for that.
Tim: Want you to come on to that. It's going to be so perfect.
Kelsey: [Crosstalk 00:45:55] Yeah. Love it.
Tim: Okay. No, but Caleb's great. I was just trying to think of a joke. What's the most annoying part about Caleb? Go.
Kelsey: He chews too loud.
Chris: Oh, wow.
Tim: I knew it. I knew it.
Kelsey: You knew it. You knew I [inaudible 00:46:03]. Okay.
Tim: [Crosstalk 00:46:03] No, I-
Kelsey: It's a real... Did you guys know it's an actual syndrome?
Tim: I have the syndrome.
Kelsey: [Crosstalk 00:46:10] That some people... I have it. It gives me rage.
Chris: [Crosstalk 00:46:12] Oh, wow.
Tim: Yes.
Kelsey: I have rage.
Tim: Yes.
Emmoe: Oh man.
Chris: I have that with smells.
Kelsey: Do you?
Chris: I do.
Kelsey: [Crosstalk 00:46:15] I have it with smells too.
Chris: Smells make me angry.
Kelsey: Angry. Whoa.
Chris: Yeah. So buses aren't fun for me.
Kelsey: Oh, yeah.
Chris: I'm...
Tim: Is it fart smells?
Chris: Oh, for sure. I take-
Kelsey: Or garbage. When the garbage is-
Chris: [Crosstalk 00:46:27] Ah, yeah. Garbage, but if it's coming from a person, I take it-
Kelsey: [Crosstalk 00:46:31] It's way worse.
Chris: ... As a personal attack against-
Tim: [Crosstalk 00:46:33] Chris.
Chris: ... Me as a person.
Tim: I'm so happy to know this.
Emmoe: On the side of the table. Okay. I'm paranoid.
Kelsey: [Crosstalk 00:46:38] Oh my gosh. That's so funny.
Chris: Yeah. You want to get me angry? I won't say anything, but I will clean your bunk while you're gone. Oh yeah.
Emmoe: Acts of service?
Kelsey: Kind of.
Chris: I for sure will.
Tim: Chris.
Kelsey: A little bit.
Emmoe: Not really. Not in the heart. Not in the heart.
Chris: [Crosstalk 00:46:50] Yeah. Maybe it's a passive aggressive... I'm not going to tell you-
Kelsey: [Crosstalk 00:46:52] That you stink.
Chris: [Crosstalk 00:46:54] Yeah, but.
Kelsey: So, I'm just going to clean it up for you.
Chris: I'm going to take care of this.
Kelsey: [Crosstalk 00:46:55] But takes the hint.
Chris: Yeah.
Tim: Oh my gosh.
Kelsey: That's so funny.
Emmoe: Oh, man.
Kelsey: That's a whole other episode right there.
Chris: [Crosstalk 00:47:01] I know.
Emmoe: Yeah.
Chris: We'll get there one day.
Tim: Okay. Well I was going to say pet peeves, but we'll get past-
Kelsey: [Crosstalk 00:47:05] It's still chewing.
Tim: ... That one. I know it is.
Kelsey: It's a real thing. Also, late people.
Tim: Ooh.
Emmoe: Ooh.
Chris: Sorry. I was late today, guys.
Kelsey: [Crosstalk 00:47:12] Oh, no. That's fine. That wasn't my passive aggressive way of throwing Chris under the bus.
Emmoe: [Crosstalk 00:47:15] Late people. And then a look.
Chris: The neighbor's fire alarm went off. They weren't there. The fire department came. I had to go let them in the house.
Kelsey: Sure. Sure.
Chris: It was a whole thing. Usually, I'm just late because I'm lazy, but today there was an excuse.
Tim: Gosh. Yeah. We told her to say that.
Chris: Yeah. Thanks.
Kelsey: Sorry.
Tim: Say late people and then look at you.
Emmoe: [Crosstalk 00:47:32] Say late people. We'll act surprised.
Tim: Practical jokes.
Kelsey: I like them. I think they're funny. Caleb does not think they're funny.
Tim: No.
Kelsey: Ooh, I learned early on.
Tim: Go.
Kelsey: He... It's just not funny to him.
Tim: Go. What did you think was funny that he did not think was funny?
Kelsey: Well, I kind of think it's funny every now and again to hide behind a door or a wall. And if somebody comes around and they're obviously not expecting you just to... Like it doesn't... You don't have to scream like a-
Tim: [crosstalk 00:47:54] Yeah.
Kelsey: ... Monster, but just boo. And it's not funny to him.
Emmoe: It's not funny at all.
Chris: I haven't [inaudible 00:48:01].
Tim: Caleb. I'm so sorry.
Emmoe: Oh man.
Tim: So sorry.
Kelsey: But he lives with an enneagram seven. So he-
Tim: [crosstalk 00:48:06] Right.
Kelsey: ... Kind of signed up for it.
Chris: Mm. What it he?
Kelsey: He's a five. So you can imagine.
Emmoe: Ah.
Chris: I don't even know what a five is. What is that?
Kelsey: See. It's the investigator. It's the people that don't like other people.
Tim: It's-
Kelsey: [Crosstalk 00:48:14] Those are the fives.
Tim: ... Totally true. Yeah.
Kelsey: They do. He likes his alone time.
Tim: Yeah.
Kelsey: But I keep him fun.
Tim: [Crosstalk 00:48:20] Totally.
Kelsey: He keeps me grounded. I'd probably be out jumping out of a plane or something-
Tim: Gosh. Next week, we can make great episode.
Kelsey: ... On this Monday morning. Yeah.
Tim: Favorite movie?
Kelsey: Titanic.
Chris: Ooh. How come?
Emmoe: Ah. Oh my goodness.
Tim: Very quick. Very quick.
Kelsey: How come?
Chris: Yeah.
Kelsey: Oh man. It's just everything about it. It's beautiful.
Emmoe: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kelsey: This beautiful love story that's painful. And I can relate to her, I think, is probably part of it. She's grew up in this perfect family and they needed her to be something all-
Tim: [Crosstalk 00:48:48] Mm.
Chris: Ah. I see it.
Kelsey: ... The time, and then she was like, nah, I'm going to go marry this other dude.
Chris: How did you feel about her throwing the diamond off at the end? You know what I-
Kelsey: [Crosstalk 00:48:55] That part still irks me to this day.
Chris: [crosstalk 00:48:57] I laughed so hard because she's like, ugh.
Emmoe: Oh my God.
Kelsey: [Inaudible 00:49:00], the old lady.
Chris: You know when she makes that noise? Yeah.
Emmoe: So good.
Kelsey: She just tosses it over.
Chris: Yeah.
Kelsey: Yeah. That part is still hard for me to understand, but yeah, Titanic. Tommy Boy would be a close second.
Chris: Oh. That was [inaudible 00:49:09].
Kelsey: I know those are very different.
Tim: No. It's-
Emmoe: Classic though.
Chris: I like it a lot.
Tim: ... You need the diversity. And us sevens need the diversity-
Kelsey: [Crosstalk 00:49:15] Yes, we do.
Tim: ... Because it's... Ooh. I got a question for you.
Kelsey: Okay.
Tim: Froyo.
Emmoe: I knew it. I knew it.
Tim: Okay.
Kelsey: It feels like a waste of time.
Chris: Oh. Oh wow.
Kelsey: A little bit.
Emmoe: Let's go.
Tim: I feel like, you guys, every time I say froyo, somebody has a thought. Oh, you're so quick. They're quick on their thoughts. I got to be quick with my question.
Kelsey: [Crosstalk 00:49:31] Is that not the direction you were going with it?
Tim: No. No, no, no. Okay.
Kelsey: Let me listen.
Tim: Thank you. If you're going froyo, do you go sweet and fruity? Or do you go chocolatey, [villani 00:00:49:44], or both?
Kelsey: Probably. I lean towards the fruitier-
Tim: Yeah.
Kelsey: ... Ones. Not the heavy chocolate. But, you know what? It depends on the day.
Chris: [Crosstalk 00:49:52] Like how Tim tries to get somebody to be... He's trying to lead them into being like him. Am I the only one-
Tim: [Crosstalk 00:49:59] [inaudible 00:49:59] ... I'm fishing. I'm fishing.
Kelsey: You are. You definitely.
Tim: Okay. So, what... No, keep going.
Kelsey: You're throwing a line out, for sure.
Tim: But you're not, not super chocolate, but...
Kelsey: No, I'm not a big chocolate fan.
Tim: Yeah. Me neither.
Kelsey: Listen, the thing is I'd rather have a pack of Skittles than a pack of M&M'S any day.
Chris: Yeah. All day. [Inaudible 00:50:11].
Kelsey: I'm a sour, chewy candy girl.
Tim: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Kelsey: Not a milk chocolate-
Tim: [crosstalk 00:50:15] Yeah.
Kelsey: ... Kind of girl.
Tim: I'm a sour, chewy, kind of girl too. That's... This is perfect.
Emmoe: [Crosstalk 00:50:18] Whoa. Whoa. Huh? What? Who? Whoa. Whoa. Whoa.
Kelsey: This is perfect.
Tim: Can you tell a joke?
Kelsey: No, not really. I wish. It feels like I should be able to, because I'm a seven.
Tim: [Crosstalk 00:50:29] I know. I know.
Kelsey: It feels like I should have a pocket full of jokes. Just on hand and ready. But I...
Chris: I think you're just the one that wants to laugh at the jokes.
Kelsey: [Crosstalk 00:50:34] I want to laugh at the jokes. Feels like someone else's job to tell the jokes.
Emmoe: [crosstalk 00:50:38] Mm-hmm (affirmative). Mm-hmm (affirmative). Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Chris: Yeah.
Kelsey: I'll laugh at them.
Tim: F-Y-I. I can't tell a joke.
Kelsey: Yeah. It's weird.
Tim: If you ask me to tell a joke, there's no way.
Chris: [Crosstalk 00:50:43] I wonder what most comedians are like on the enneagram. That would be an interesting-
Kelsey: [Crosstalk 00:50:47] That'd interesting to know.
Chris: Yeah.
Tim: I don't think they're sevens.
Kelsey: I don't know [inaudible 00:50:52].
Chris: I don't know that they are either.
Kelsey: I don't know what they are.
Chris: Most of them are really-
Kelsey: [Crosstalk 00:50:56] Maybe they're threes.
Chris: ... Secluded. I think they might be threes too, but-
Kelsey: Hmm.
Chris: ... That's my hunch.
Kelsey: Or maybe they're fives because they sit-
Chris: [crosstalk 00:51:04] They could be fives.
Kelsey: ... By themselves in quiet rooms.
Tim: And investigate crap.
Chris: Yeah.
Tim: [Crosstalk 00:51:06] Because they're smart.
Kelsey: [crosstalk 00:51:06] And then they just write stuff out-
Tim: [Crosstalk 00:51:08] Yeah.
Kelsey: ... About it and then they can turn it on for like a short time.
Tim: [Crosstalk 00:51:11] Yes.
Chris: But they're not feelers. So, I don't feel like-
Kelsey: [Crosstalk 00:51:13] No.
Chris: ... They're not going to get their feelings hurt-
Kelsey: [Crosstalk 00:51:15] Nope. And you'd have to be a not feeler.
Chris: Yeah.
Kelsey: To be a comedian.
Chris: For sure.
Kelsey: Because if people don't laugh at your jokes. You got to be fine with that.
Chris: Yeah.
Tim: Favorite sound.
Kelsey: Favorite sound?
Tim: Yep.
Kelsey: When a baby laughs.
Tim: Oh, [doy 00:51:27].
Kelsey: I mean, come on.
Emmoe: Aww.
Tim: Favorite smell.
Kelsey: At any kind of food cooking, but particularly Mexican.
Chris: Mm.
Tim: Oh, the cooking of it.
Kelsey: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Whenever... Yeah. Someone's making... Well, okay. I'm just going to say it. When you saute garlic. That moment when you-
Tim: [Crosstalk 00:51:39] Mm.
Kelsey: ... Throw garlic into a hot sizzling pan. That smell.
Tim: [Crosstalk 00:51:41] Hillary did that last night. Yeah. We made out for a good hour after that.
Kelsey: Oh my gosh.
Chris: Congratulations.
Emmoe: Why do I feel like I know your schedule, man. I don't want know it, but I feel like I got it [inaudible 00:51:52].
Kelsey: But, you have to make out before you eat the garlic.
Tim: Pre-garlic. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Kelsey: Can't be after.
Tim: Post-garlic is not good.
Emmoe: Help.
Tim: Then you're making out with gum in your mouth. You know what I mean?
Emmoe: Yes.
Tim: Swapping gum.
Chris: If you both have the garlic.
Kelsey: If you both have it's less [difficult 00:52:02].
Tim: Yeah. That works. That works.
Kelsey: Yes.
Chris: What was your band called? 1 Girl Nation. What was your favorite 1 Girl Nation song?
Kelsey: Okay.
Emmoe: Yeah.
Kelsey: You guys, is it weird that I almost can't remember a single song?
Chris: I love it.
Kelsey: I feel like that phase of my life is totally blocked out.
Emmoe: Yeah.
Kelsey: I don't even...
Emmoe: That's legit.
Kelsey: I can't remember.
Chris: I could see that.
Kelsey: I mean, these are songs I used to get up in a costume and dance on stage with the Britney Spears mic too.
Tim: Yeah.
Chris: Oh, you guys Garth [Brooksed 00:52:28] it.
Tim: Yeah.
Kelsey: Yeah, we did.
Chris: Wow.
Tim: Yeah.
Kelsey: And I can't recall a single lyric. I have no idea.
Tim: I think you're doing great.
Kelsey: That's real.
Chris: I think you are too.
Kelsey: Sometimes I don't trust my brain, but it's probably for the best.
Chris: That's the three kids. It's fine.
Kelsey: It's... Yes. It's getting worse. That's why we're not having anymore.
Tim: When a baby cries, what's your guys' deal at night? Who gets up?
Kelsey: So it kind of depends on which one it is. If it's the youngest, the baby girl, it's always going to be me. If it's either the two boys-
Tim: For obvious reasons.
Kelsey: For obvious reasons.
Tim: Okay.
Kelsey: Boobs.
Tim: Yep. Yep.
Kelsey: But for the boys, they'll take daddy now.
Tim: Yeah.
Kelsey: It didn't always used to be that way.
Tim: Yeah.
Kelsey: Sometimes if Caleb would go up there, it would make it-
Chris: Worse?
Kelsey: ... Astronomically worse.
Chris: Just go back to bed.
Kelsey: Right.
Chris: I'll take care of this.
Kelsey: It wasn't even worth it.
Tim: With twins.
Kelsey: I can't even fathom twins.
Tim: I had to use my parts as well. We tried.
Chris: I don't understand what that means.
Emmoe: [Crosstalk 00:53:24] No one [asked 00:53:21] follow-up questions. Everyone looked at each...
Tim: Hillary... If two babies were awake. And so, I would have to try to nurse one of them.
Kelsey: Just pacify them with a nipple.
Tim: Yeah. Yeah. Sorry, babe.
Chris: They were like, just jump on.
Kelsey: Even though they know the difference real quick.
Chris: I'm going to try. She's like, what are you doing?
Kelsey: Hillary's like, have you lost your mind?
Chris: I'm just trying to help.
Emmoe: Oh my goodness.
Kelsey: Solidarity, babe.
Tim: I'm trying.
Kelsey: [Crosstalk 00:53:43] Oh my gosh.
Tim: I'm trying. So, went to a lactation specialist. And, so anyways, this has been a great episode.
Chris: [crosstalk 00:53:48] Yeah? You [weren't 00:53:49] latching?
Kelsey: This has been awesome. Okay.
Tim: Okay. Well, I may or may not have just edited a bunch of stuff out.
Emmoe: Yeah, totally.
Tim: And maybe it'll go on some later-
Emmoe: [Crosstalk 00:53:57] Just behind the scenes.
Tim: Behind the scenes.
Chris: [crosstalk 00:53:58] Oh, that would be good.
Emmoe: The donors get it.
Kelsey: That's good.
Emmoe: Donors get the extra.
Chris: We need one episode that's like, maybe don't let the kids listen.
Tim: Yeah.
Emmoe: Yeah.
Chris: And then we'll just put all of this in there.
Tim: Okay. Okay.
Emmoe: Just be B-roll of us chatting [inaudible 00:54:07].
Tim: Total B-roll. So Kelsey, people can check out your book when?
Kelsey: I mean, it's available for pre-order now.
Tim: Okay.
Kelsey: Anywhere you buy books.
Tim: Okay.
Kelsey: So, check it out.
Chris: I'm a serial book buyer. So, it's going to happen right now.
Kelsey: Perfect.
Tim: I mean, then just go check out Caleb and Kelsey.
Kelsey: If you want.
Tim: Okay. Great.
Kelsey: If you want.
Tim: Yeah.
Kelsey: You know.
Tim: Yeah. It's all over the internet.
Kelsey: It might be.
Tim: Yeah.
Kelsey: I don't know. I show up where Caleb tells me to show up. I mean, I don't have a lot of-
Tim: Do you wear a red wig?
Kelsey: No, thank God. Not anymore.
Tim: Okay. Strong.
Kelsey: Yeah.
Tim: Okay. Go get your kids.
Kelsey: Okay. Thanks guys.
Tim: Thanks everybody for listening to this. If You want to get free text messages, please Text 10K10K to 55678. Go check out 10000minutes.com. And please, would you rate this or like, or subscribe to 10000 MINUTES. That would be really helpful for us. Thanks guys. And catch us next week. We've got Ellie Holcomb on here and it is such a great, great classic conversation. All right, bye.
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