013: Be The Church Gathered

This week on “The Experiment,” Author Trillia Newbell shares how the pandemic has moved the church to RETHINK the way we gather online, what it looks like to love and disagree, and the future needs the church will face post pandemic.

Who do you share your week with? How are we the church outside of the 80 minute gathering? Whether it’s running errands, going for a walk or grabbing lunch, be the church gathered.

This week’s Practice:

Be The Church Gathered

+ 013 Be the Church Gathered - Trillia Newbell Transcript

Tim: Everybody welcome to 10,000 MINUTES Experiment.

Chris: It's been an experiment already today.

Tim: You guys, I'm sweating.

Chris: This is just a Tim stress test.

Tim: It's all a Tim stress test.

Chris: This is who you are when stressed.

Emmoe: So good.

Chris: How do you feel right now?

Tim: I'm hot. We've been trying to figure out Zoom. And I've said to hell with the devil maybe 45 times so far, maybe a few other words.

Chris: You could say much worse.

Tim: Yeah, sometime. Anyways, It's Tim Timmons here, the hot one and I don't mean good looking hot. Anybody? Somebody would say, "No, Tim, you look great."

Chris: You look great though.

Tim: Yeah. Thanks. It's just like I just got out of a pool, which is nice.

Chris: Well, you get that just walking outside right now.

Tim: That's true.

Emmoe: Yeah. It's bad.

Tim: Chris Cleveland.

Chris: Yo.

Tim: We've got Emmoe Doniz.

Emmoe: That's me.

Tim: And then we've got a real special guest who were BFFs as of today. And Trillia, your introduction is just, well, this hot, sweaty person. And I'm so sorry about that.

Trillia: It is a joy to be here.

Tim: Yes. Thank you. It's a joy to have you. And so we're zooming in. The best part is you live in Franklin and that's what makes me the happiest.

Trillia: I do. I live right here and I wish I were in studio with you guys. That would just be-

Tim: How long have you been here in Franklin?

Trillia: I have been eight years. I'm from Knoxville, Tennessee, so we're a [inaudible 00:01:27]. So I'm a Tennesseean, but about eight years here in the Nashville area.

Chris: Awesome.

Tim: I love it. We have a lot of fun. We just kind of dork around and we talk about things hopefully that matters. Things that matters? That things that matter. And she's an author.

Emmoe: I know. We're going to have to cut that part out.

Chris: [crosstalk 00:01:44] big time because of that one.

Tim: Yeah. It's almost like when you talk to a counselor, a therapist, you're always going, "Crap, they just totally found me out."

Chris: Or you're trying to diagnose yourself and sound smart. You're like, "Well, maybe I'm having some repression around these issues."

Emmoe: And they're like, "I think you're overthinking things."

Chris: I want to try to alliterate a lot today.

Tim: Lots of onomatopoeias.

Chris: This will be great.

Tim: Okay. Sorry, Trillia.

Trillia: I love it.

Tim: And just so you know, we do do a lot of edits on this thing.

Chris: Why'd that get me? I'm so upset with myself?

Trillia: I hope you do not edit any of this out because it's remarkable.

Tim: Well, funny you should say that Trillia because I do edit these a decent amount, but rarely do I edit out anything that makes me smile and I hope it makes you laugh too. I've actually had a few people who have told me that they just listen to the beginning of this, the middle and the end, because it's our funny conversations, et cetera so if that's you, we just want to say I'm totally okay with that. Hey, we'd also love more feedback from you so would you please like this on any of the platforms that you're listening to it and rate it, please. That'd be super helpful. And then subscribe to this. That'd be great. Also, you can reach out on our new Instagram and Facebook pages. Please go there and get more information and give us feedback.

Tim: And if any of this 10000 MINUTES stuff has been helpful to you, would you please share it with somebody else? And would you even consider partnering with us financially? You can go to 10000minutes.com and look in the upper right hand corner. It says donate. And please do that monthly or a one time big gift would be awesome. Thank you. All right, so for this week, when we've asked around who we should have on the show, a few people had raved about this woman named Trillia Newbell and I've actually read a bunch of things that she's written and loved everything she said. She's an author. She's an amazing speaker so she's a real joy on this thing. I think you'll love what she brings to this. And then at the very end, we have my good friend Mishi Sherry who helped me start actually 10000 MINUTES a few years back. And then she's going to join us on the last section, which is introing the practice for the next week. So here we go. Thanks guys.

Tim: Okay. So today Trillia, we would like for you to share the worst parts about you.

Emmoe: No. You just pushed her to the teeth.

Tim: Just the things that you go, "You know what, this is my worst attribute." So if you just want to start, we've all kind of gone around already. No, I'm totally kidding.

Trillia: I'm sure my kids contribute to that.

Tim: No, I totally get it. So you've got kids?

Trillia: Or two.

Tim: Yeah. I've I've seen them on the lines. And you're married? I'm a fan. So I've heard about your pink husband. That made me laugh so hard. Can you explain that really quick?

Trillia: Yes. So actually he is pink. He's rather pink and he kind of gets rosy cheeks. But my son used to call him peach.

Tim: Peach, oh dang it.

Trillia: That's okay. So close. And my son would call me brown. So I am an African-American female and my husband's white and we're in an interracial marriage. So my son was trying to identify with the two of us and figure out himself too when he was really young, maybe around two. And he'd call my husband peach and me brown. And he's very light-skinned himself. And so he called himself peach for a long time. So it was very cute.

Tim: I love that. I just wanted to make you correct that because I knew it was peach.

Trillia: It was a quiz and you pass.

Tim: Yeah. Well done. I didn't know if you were lying before, because if you were going to say, "Yeah, it's pink." then we'd call you on that and we'd say number one, the first thing about you is you're a liar. You know what I mean?

Chris: Stop.

Emmoe: Now we're hot. Not we are sweating. Oh, my goodness.

Tim: Trillia, you're like, "Why did I say yes to this?" So I'm so happy. So I did find it pretty fascinating that a few days ago, it was 54 years ago that day that the supreme court ruled states could no longer deem interracial marriages legal. That was 54 freaking years ago.

Trillia: Yes. It's not that long ago. And so often I am asked, "Well, why are we talking about race?" or "Why bring this up?" And it's very clear real quick that if we look back at history and we don't even have to look that far because history-

Tim: Yeah, it's not that far back.

Trillia: It's not that far. And so we need to remind ourselves of this because I think we do forget because laws are changed and we can you have this podcast, for example, together. No one's going to probably picket us. The reality is that we're still feeling the effects of our broken history and we need to be reminded of these things so that we can understand where we are today.

Tim: Right. I love that. Well, I am so thankful for that. And obviously you're so thankful for that, being married to your peach. Do you call him my peach? "Hey peach, would you get me this?" No, that doesn't work. Okay. So this past week we've been looking at the idea of being the Church online. So the idea is there are 10,080 minutes in a week. 80 of those minutes are generally in a Church gathering somewhere which is awesome and can be so powerful. But there are 10,000 other minutes. What do you do with your 10,000 minutes? How do we join Jesus in our 10,000 minutes as the Church? So we gather and then we scatter for the next 10,000 minutes until we gather again. And people have been going, "This pandemic is so great for the idea of being the Church all week long." And so I guess what we're trying to figure out here is what does it look like for us? And how did it go this past week of us actually being the Church online?

Tim: So we're in a series on rethinking our thinking, so repenting, rethinking our thinking on the word Church. Jesus only uses it twice, which is fascinating. It's only when... If there's somebody who's been blowing it in your group of friends as the Church, you go to that person and then if they don't hear it, then you go with another friend and then you say, "Hey, Church, let's join together." And then he talks about Peter being the rock. Those are the only two places where he actually talks about Church. So it's more about not just the gathering, but who are we as we are scattered and especially online. What does that look like? What do we think about being the Church online all week long?

Trillia: Yes. So for me, I think we're part of this body. We're part of the universal Church, the Big Sea Church. And so if we're going to be online, I think we need to represent Jesus. So as a Christ follower, as a disciple of Jesus, that's where it starts for me. And then as a Church, Jesus says, "People will know that you are my disciples by your love for one another." So if we're talking about how do we display being a part of his body online, then we need to ask ourselves, do we love each other? Are we displaying to the world that we are a part of this community that God has ushered us into, which is the Big Sea Church? So that to me is we need to ask ourselves and if I can be so blunt is where we're failing miserably.

Trillia: We are not displaying the love of God to a watching world online. People who see us do not think of... I don't think that we are followers of Jesus, that we love one another because our online presence is so toxic and divided and hostile, overall, not in every place. And I'm being very specific in thinking of one social media outlet in particular. So we need to ask ourselves, are we displaying the love of God to a broken world? Do we look like we are the Church universal, the Big Sea Church or are we just fighting? Well, the answer is, we're doing a lot more fighting. And so I do believe that there's a place for conflict and working through theological differences even, but the way that we communicate to one another matters. To me, I think it's the most important step, that we really evaluate what we do now. How to be the Church online, real practically, some of the things that I've enjoyed is leading Bible studies online. That's just one way that I have practically enjoyed fellowship with other believers across the world.

Tim: Can I just push on that really quick? I love that. Yeah. This idea, you were just talking about theology. Even just in this past season, online, we've lost good friends because of our theological differences. So how do you do a Bible study? And I want to come back to this other thing you said. Somebody asked you once what should the Church be praying in the season? And you said pray for humility, repentance and true unity bound in love. I loved those three things that you said. So I want you to talk about that, but in the context of you actually doing these Bible studies, how do you do a Bible study when all four of us around this room and Internet's Zoom chat right now, we all have different theologies? And so when you say something and I'm like, "Well, I don't think I buy that." How do we do that well? Does that make sense?

Trillia: No, it's a great question.

Tim: How do we rises above that? As you're saying, how do we find unity in this Bible study? And I go, "Girl, I don't know. I haven't found too much unity in Bible studies." But you have, so go.

Trillia: Okay. Well, first of all, if they're going to join a Bible study that I'm leading, they're going to know where I stand theologically. And so you have a choice. You can either join and be taught and understanding that this is my leaning. This is how I'm going to talk about the Lord in the context of how I interpret the scripture. But I think what we can do is we can learn about the Lord from each other without... There can be, I think, a theological difference without there being a hatred towards one of them. That's a real difference there. So those who come to me or read one of my Bible studies or any of my teaching, they pretty much know where I'm coming from. And if they don't, they'll learn pretty quickly and they can discern for themselves what to believe and what to question and ask. And I hope everyone questions anything I teach.

Trillia: That's the scripture. We go to the word first and ask, "Okay, what does God's word say about this?" So I'm not afraid of theological differences. I do think however that there are going to be some convictions that we see in the scripture where I'm going to say, "Okay, so plainly God, I just see this so plainly." We're not going to probably be on the same stage preaching together or speaking together because our theological differences are pretty strong. I do think there are some where it's a clear dividing line, but a divide doesn't mean a hatred. I do think that's where we, as Christians, can be very confused. We can love each other and still disagree. So I'm not really sure why or where we've gotten the idea that we can't disagree and still love.

Tim: That is like the indictment of the American Church right now. This past two years has been... We're doing exactly the opposite of what you're saying. Actually the opposite of what Jesus said is they will know you're Jesus people by your love for one another. So what's it look like to love and disagree?

Trillia: I think if you and I... I have no idea. You said we all four come from different theological backgrounds. Well, I'm talking to you without any knowledge of what you're talking about so I don't know. You probably know more because you did some research before you were having me on the podcast. I did not. So I have no idea what your theological leanings are. But with that said, if we all started the conversation about the Lord and I imagine we would have that conversation and we would listen, being quick to hear and slow to speak. That's love. And we would assume the best. Thank you, 1st Corinthians. So that's love. We're going to assume the best. We're not going to assume the worst. We're going to be patient and forbearing, that's love. So I think that it is about our posture and taking what we know the scriptures say and putting them into action.

Trillia: Now, what I didn't say in any of those is that we're going to agree. So we don't have to agree and we don't have to end our conversation and say I affirm everything that you say to love. So to me, I feel confident that if you really do love the way that God has called us to love, to love our neighbor as ourselves, which is a sacrificial love that we should be able to have these kind of conversations without ending a call or with hate in our hearts, with a vengeance or a desire for murder, that's like... I'm just naming it, anger, what Jesus names it. So I think we should it be able to do that? I will say it's hard because we think we're right. So it can be difficult to love with that kind of listening and patience. So I don't say that as someone who believes it's easy.

Chris: Yeah. I feel like we've been talking a little bit more about believers talking to believers online. We're talking about Bible study and these things where people are making a decision like, "Yeah. I'm in." Even if we don't agree, we've got a baseline of agreement a little bit, if I'm going to come to a Bible study. I wonder how this looks in general with the rest of the world. And I think I would really love to hear from you just because a few things of what you said already, I'm like, "Hey, can I sign up for your next class?" I'd love to come. But I'd love to hear just from your perspective how we as individuals and us corporately as a Church can be the better Church for people who aren't Churched, who don't know Jesus, who maybe don't subscribe to the things that we subscribe to.

Chris: In my thought, that's like showing them, talk about the kindest thing we can do as Christians, telling them things. I don't know that the culture wants to be told anymore. I think they want to be shown. And the past year with politics and racial inequality and all of these things, I feel like the Church has been just really poor actors in this in a lot of ways. And I'm curious how you think we can do better.

Trillia: Yeah. Well, that's a loaded question and a good one.

Chris: I'm sorry.

Trillia: No, it's a good one. I should say there's so much that we are failing at publicly. But I have so many unbelieving friends and I'm so grateful for that because one of the things that I have learned is that I don't have to change for them. In other words, I'm Trillia online. Same Trillia offline so I don't have to be less Christian because they're someone who doesn't believe the same. I need to just be what God has called me to be. And so I don't think that those who don't believe the same want us to be less of who we are. Actually, I think they want us to be who we are. In other words, I think what the problem is that we're not actually being who God is calling us to be. And we need to repent as a Church, as a people. Repent of our unloving deeds and our unloving thoughts and the way that we speak to one another.

Trillia: And by the way, I have failed in many ways. But if we rise to what God has called us to be, then I do believe that it is attractive, that it shows the people this is what it means to follow Jesus. And I actually think that if we say those things, if we say we have failed, it's also attractive because we're not coming as people who are like, "Ooh, look at me. Look at my beauty and my grace." No. We're like, "Look at Jesus." And so I have a few friends who interact with me pretty consistently who don't know the Lord. And I have lamented loud to unjustice and the people who have said racist things towards me. And it's interesting because we are not Jesus's PR department.

Trillia: I don't have to pretend like the Church's awesome and that if you come, you're not going to be hurt. Actually, it's the opposite. We are broken, in need of God and in need of repentance, in need of grace. And so I am not going to pretend like that is not the reality. But in so doing, I'm going to tell a better story of who Jesus actually is and who we can be if we continue to turn towards him. I also think God's going to build his Church. The real question is, are we going to be a part of it or are we not? And I hope we are. That's all.

Chris: Yeah. It makes me think of pruning the bush or the tree so it can grow. My follow up question I think on all of it is what do you think if God's going to build his Church and after the last year of us walking through this, what do you think that Church looks like?

Trillia: Okay. If I want to get real practical, I just don't think people are going to fall for flashy, the big show Christianity thing. I am seeing the Anglican Church, for example, grow as a result. People who are just looking for liturgical kind of slow meditative Christianity. I see that kind of pool. I will hope that the vision of a multiethnic Church will grow. I actually don't know if that is going to be with the case. I think people are going to look for safe places and that might mean that multiethnic Churches are not going to necessarily be where people are going to flock, which is a whole episode.

Chris: Come on. We need to do that episode [crosstalk 00:20:55].

Trillia: That's a whole conversation. But I think people are going to look for the real Jesus and flash and flare is not going to cut it anymore. I think that's what we're going to look for.

Chris: I love that. I think connecting to a historical thing, joining with the communion of saints. You saying like in the liturgies and those things, I see that. I think what you stumbled on, we need to do an episode on that because it would be really interesting and have you back and talk about it because I wonder if the kingdom come on earth as in heaven is really that multiethnic Church. But I think you're right too. I don't know that way forward because I think we both want to connect to something old, but the old doesn't connect all of us very well. So I wonder how we do that better. I'm just throwing that out there.

Trillia: I agree.

Tim: You got any thoughts?

Emmoe: Yeah. I have a thought more than a question, but I read something you wrote about how we build congregations at the table when we invite people over and how it kind of starts from home. And I've just been chewing on that for a few days of how do I do that online? What does congregation look like online? But you touched a little bit on it with your Bible study. I'm very active online. I'm involved with a lot of communities, but Jesus isn't the reason we're all attracted to each other. It's like video games and I think that's why like comic-con and things like that really will never die because there's just something that's uniting you with other people. And so I've just been thinking how online am I creating my own kind of congregation?

Emmoe: And I think in the past episodes, we also talked about the control over our feed, our Instagram feed and how we're building community. But I think reading your writing, which everyone should, it really made me think of the way I see community differently. How I'm inviting people into my space. Because last week we also talked about how the Church feels to comfortable welcoming people into the building, but being online, it has a whole different feel because you're kind of trying to figure out what you want to align with. But yeah, your writing really changed the way I'm seeing how I'm inviting people to my table online, if that makes sense.

Trillia: I was just going to say it does make sense. I absolutely think that they're going to continue. The question will be how do we do it well? And also, how do we encourage that real life connectivity that we all need? And so I do believe that it will be something that continues for sure.

Tim: Trillia, thank you so much. We will have you on again. We would love to have more conversations. You're awesome. Thank you for what you're doing for who you are. We're so thankful for you.

Trillia: Thank you guys. It was a joy.

Tim: Everybody. Welcome back. So this is 10,000 thoughts with Trillia. So girl, this is quick round. What I like to call quick round. So you go as quick as you possibly can. God bless you. Here we go. First thing you think, okay, 10,000 thoughts, nickname.

Trillia: Brown.

Tim: Describe yourself in three words.

Trillia: Joyful, energetic, spontaneous.

Chris: I like it. All the things I wish I was.

Tim: We're going to have Chris on a reading regimen of Trillia's stuff. Okay. Buckets of...

Trillia: Buckets of money.

Chris: You're one of my favorite people.

Tim: All I can think of was poop. I couldn't get poop out of my head. That's so sad.

Emmoe: Of course.

Tim: Pet peeves.

Trillia: People eating with their mouth open. I can't take it.

Tim: Okay. Chocolate versus sweet and sour, like if you're going froyo.

Trillia: Chocolate.

Tim: Chocolate. Okay. What will you never do?

Trillia: Jump out of an airplane.

Chris: Yeah. I'm with you.

Tim: That's a theme. Unlimited resources.

Trillia: I don't know what you mean.

Tim: I guess that was her first thought. If you had unlimited resources...

Trillia: Travel.

Tim: Okay. I like that. Where would you travel?

Trillia: Europe.

Tim: Where specifically in Europe?

Trillia: Well, I've done a lot of traveling so I would probably just take my family to France. But I've already seen it, but I just love it.

Tim: Gosh. Where haven't you been?

Trillia: Okay. I would probably take them to Rwanda too, which I've been, but I haven't been throughout other parts of Africa so I'm really interested in west Africa. And so I'd probably go to Cameroon. And I haven't been to a lot of places. And my whole family, we love Venezuelan food. I know Venezuela has lot of things going on right now, but we would probably go to central America as well. So there's lots of places we would travel, but travel would be unlimited. We'd just go all over and see cultures.

Chris: Yes.

Tim: Last one. Superpower.

Trillia: Flying.

Tim: What would you have? Flying.

Chris: Me too.

Trillia: Or I could travel.

Tim: Yes. But then would you be carrying all of your kids?

Trillia: With my unlimited amount of money, I'd have them all. If I can fly, I can carry them.

Chris: Yeah, I believe that.

Tim: Trillia, thank you.

Chris: You're the best.

Emmoe: Thank you, Trillia.

Trillia: Thanks, guys.

Tim: Everybody. I want to introduce you to somebody that's staying at my house just for a night or two. So one of the OGs of the 10000 MINUTES. When I first started this idea of 10000 MINUTES, I called my friend Mishi Sherry. You probably said, "Hey, how can I help you in this next season?" We spent so many hours just trying to figure out what could this look like to help people join Jesus all week long? Not just in the 80 minute gathering, but all week long. So number one, we're doing this show a lot because of your initial work, so thank you Mishi.

Mishi: That's great.

Chris: Check's in the mail, Mishi.

Mishi: That's very generous.

Emmoe: You're in the credits.

Mishi: I'm just so proud of you. I'm so proud. I love seeing dreams come to life and people be brave and go grab them and do them because it's easy to talk about them, harder to do them and I've liked watching the flail. You flailed and tried and experimented and you're really finding your jam. And this is a great jam. This is a great way to do it.

Chris: I love the flail. I feel like I'm flailing most of the time, just Phoebe run.

Mishi: Exactly.

Chris: Full Phoebe flailing abou.t

Mishi: That's right.

Tim: So anyway, thank you, Mish.

Mishi: I'm so stoked to be here, you guys. Super fun.

Tim: And she's now paid us $36 just to be on this show. So if you guys want to be on the show, you can [crosstalk 00:28:15].

Chris: It's $38 a month.

Mishi: Let's get one sushi roll. Nothing more.

Tim: Yeah. So anyways, some people do Patreon, this is how we do.

Emmoe: We do Mishi.

Mishi: It's an income stream.

Chris: My Venmo is...

Tim: Okay. So we just had a great conversation which Mishi, you actually listened into, with Trillia. That girl is awesome.

Mishi: So good.

Tim: I really enjoyed that. So this is our last rethinking of the word Church. This week, the practice is actually be the Church gathered. Jeff talked about that a little bit on that two podcasts ago because he's the pastor of the Church. He understands that stuff. And to be honest, I've been more outside saying, "Man, I did that thing." It kind of left me high and dry a little bit. It left me really unsatisfied just to do Church. And so this idea is how do we just be the Church all week long? So that is really part of the point. And I'm not damning the institution at all. I think there's some real dangers with it, but I actually loved our conversation with Jeff because I think it was helpful for us to see some of the beauty of the institution.

Chris: What it could be.

Tim: What it could be. But this is actually a lot about that. We should have had Jeff on this one. This is more of what's it really look like for us to be the Church gathered. But I don't want to focus on Sunday morning. I want to focus on the table. I want to focus on our conversations. I want to focus on those things like sitting around something like this or eating with people or what does it look like for us to be the Church gathered? And again, I do not mean in the main gathering. I love those things, but that's not what Church is. Church is who we are gathered and scattered in the name and the power and with the authority of Jesus. And it's so great that we get to gather with a bunch of people in a building, but I can also be the Church in a coffee shop or at my dinner table. So, okay, go. Be the Church gathered. Why is it important to gather as the Church in that way outside of the 80 minutes?

Chris: I think you do this really well. Every time I come to your house, there's six cars in front of it. There's always kids here with your kids. Your wife's got somebody here. You've got people here. Every time I walk upstairs from the studio, there's a house full of people. Maybe better than anybody I know, I think just seeing you do this, you've kind of collected all of us. We're part of this thing now that even here doing this podcast has kind of become a Church outside of it. So maybe kudos to you a little bit for caring enough to do that.

Tim: What else about me? What other things do you really love?

Chris: No one comes to my house, Tim. That's all I'm saying.

Mishi: But there's something there, right? So for years, I've known you pre-beard, pre-glasses.

Tim: Oh gosh.

Mishi: And one of the first things-

Chris: Did he have hair?

Mishi: He did have hair when I first met him.

Tim: A little bit.

Mishi: A little scattering. Notice I had to pause to think about that.

Tim: Okay. Back to things you like about me.

Mishi: But one of the first concepts I learned from you was the idea of representing Jesus. And to me, that just communicates such intentionality. So you always are intentional. We talked about this yesterday. If you've gone out to lunch with Tim, you know that he always learns the name of the server and he takes a minute and he asks about the server. Or he sees someone clearly kind of broken in the corner, he will make a moment to say, "Hey, doing okay today?" And I've even been with him when he said, "Do you mind if I just pray for you really quick?" So in terms of being the Church, it's again, that action part of it that I know I have adopted because of your influence. And I think that's one of the cool things about the body of Christ or the Church is that you can see someone who's doing something better and steal it, do it yourself. I'm like, "I don't have to reinvent it. I just go do what you're doing."

Tim: Thank you. Emmoe, what do you love about me? I'm totally kidding.

Emmoe: Your dry humor.

Tim: No.

Emmoe: One to zero.

Tim: So how have you guys experienced the Church gathered outside of the 80 minutes? Once again, everybody, I really love the 80 minutes, but there's something so wrong if we think that we are the Church gathered only for 80 minutes. What has been helpful for you in that way? What's been hard?

Chris: I've always just been really good at Church because it's all I've known. I grew up in it since I was little. I can do that 80 better than anybody.

Mishi: Yeah. It's true.

Chris: It's easy.

Mishi: It's like a muscle.

Chris: I'm not good at other pieces of it. And we've even talked about this. Maybe some of the first times we hung out. I'm really bad at making friends and weirdly self conscious about it. So I don't put myself out there at all. I'm like, "No, no. I know I'm good here." But I don't want to put myself out on a limb here so that's been difficult. So I think coming from me personally, I'm so have to be type A in all of these other places that when I'm not in those places, I want to be by myself.

Mishi: It's true.

Chris: And I'm not the Church very well.

Tim: And there's a place for that though. There's a healthy place for saying, "I just need some space and total self-care." I don't want to dim that either. What's health then look like because each of us are different and need different things and need people and sometimes just need a loan.

Chris: No, I think even thinking through a lot of this and faith in a lot of ways, it just comes down to community for me. When I think about why I'm going to go to Church, just talking to Kinzie about Church, just because it's changed so much. And I still haven't been back this year because I've been working at another Church. So I was asking her about it. I was like, "Man, really the things that make me go to Church at this point are like kids program and am I around people I like?" That's kind of it. And so as I think about that being the Church and this may be way wrong of an angle, but I'm like, "Well, what am I getting out of it? Am I getting some community out of it?" I don't know at this point in my life that I need more Jesus sermons, maybe I do but it's just a different angle on it, I think.

Tim: Totally. Let's get out of even the gathering because I totally hear that. That makes all the sense in the world and I agree and that's another conversation actually.

Chris: But it's still the same conversation because it's the same during the week. How can I connect and create community during the week. And so the gathering is an easy, kind of takes less effort for me because there's people around that think kind of the same way I do, maybe and we're forced into this social interaction. It's harder, at least for me, because I'm not a social person to dive into that in the 10000 MINUTES because I can go weird amounts of time without calling my mom and I should call her all the time. So one of the things I do struggle with, I think even outside of that gathering, is like, "Gosh, I'm not creating the community of Church outside of it."

Tim: Okay. So what does it actually mean to be the Church gathered outside of the 80 minutes? Gathered could be like our walks. Chris, we go on walks every week. To me that is a gathering of the Church because we are laughing, we're making fun of each other, we're having fun, but we're also digging into things in the presence of Jesus. We're aware that Jesus is with us on our walk, probably walking a little faster than we are. But to me that is a gathering of the Church.

Mishi: I have a group of people down in southern California called the fight club because first rule of fight club, don't talk about fight club. And it's not a Bible study and we're not going through any kind of curriculum and there's no real structure to it, except that we've committed to living life out loud in front of each other, as people who are really trying to practice their faith. We've got parents and single people and older kids and younger kids and it's a really great kind of just smash of life. And I really enjoy it. We need it. We have committed to one another, this is who we can be disastrous in front of and gross and ugly and we're still going to be loved anyway. And for me, that element of it. But I also think of the 80 minutes and the 10,000 minutes. For some reason, I'm a huge Dallas Cowboys fan. Please don't hate me but I love them because they're disasters and it makes me feel normal.

Chris: When did you start liking them? Are you talking about like '95, '96? Smith years.

Mishi: Actually, yes. Like Tony Dorset years. Yes. I grew up-

Chris: I think maybe like '92. I don't know. I can't remember.

Mishi: Even before they had... I always call it rehearsal camp, which is not true. What do they call the camp before? Like practice camp?

Chris: Training camp?

Mishi: Yep. Well, rehearsal.

Tim: Somebody's been in community theater.

Emmoe: Five, six, seven, eight.

Mishi: This is so stupid.

Chris: Also I felt like really validated as a man right there. Pretty girl.

Mishi: There I was looking to you for the male input.

Emmoe: That's where you act like you catch the ball.

Mishi: They did training camp where I grew up in Thousand Oaks.

Tim: Two, three, four.

Mishi: That's so good. But I look at 10,000 minutes and 80 minutes as almost like locker rooms and playing fields. Locker room, it's just us speaking our own insider language and it's getting that tank filled and come on. And then we go out on the field where we do our own individual jobs together. And then we come in at half time and see what we need to sort of like, "Mishi, you suck at this and tweak this or whatever and Tim, stop whatever you're doing." But then we go back on the field. So there's an individual element for me of being the Church in the 10,000 minutes knowing that I have this invisible thread of connection to my other players, if you will, the other people on my team. And then the last thing I'll say is that I get anxious about too many outside Church gatherings that are still Church people. Does that make sense?

Emmoe: Yes.

Tim: Say that in another way.

Mishi: Okay. So if I know someone who goes to Bible study on Tuesday morning and she's in a prayer group on Thursday night and then she gathers for lunch to walk through the word of. So I wonder where are you actually experiencing the world? How is the world experiencing you?

Tim: Okay. So when we're too holy for...

Mishi: I just don't want the Church gathering outside of the 80 minutes to become mini 80 minute gatherings. Does that make sense?

Tim: Yeah, I get that.

Emmoe: And it could be the expectation, again, of what we think Church means because we're rethinking it. So even if I think about, after hearing you, maybe I do gather all the time when I'm playing games with my friends and we're talking about life and we're intentional every night to meet up and talk about the day but I still have that old view of I have to carve out and sacrifice time to be the Church as a sacrifice, a cost, all that kind of stuff. And even though it is, that doesn't mean it's tied to self-neglect. So it could just be my personal experience of what I think Church has always been for me and awakening to maybe I have been gathering this whole time and I could enjoy it in that way.

Mishi: I was just going to say, what if it filled your well?

Emmoe: Which it does. It has been like a journey of like, "I'm wasting my time" or "I should be doing this." But really I'm like, "I'm so happy here." I love the way Jesus is showing up in community, but how do both exist? And hearing you talk, I'm like, "They just do." Maybe I am doing my one individual role on the field in this way, but I'm still having a hard time letting go of what I think I should be doing as the Church in my 10,000 minutes.

Chris: It reminds me of being a kid in my really strict Southern Baptist Church and then being like, "Show me who your friends are and I'll show you who you are." You were really encouraged to only hang out with the people in your clan. And I wonder if being in the Church is actually like experiencing the world and not putting ourselves in this bubble, but having friends with different viewpoints and from different walks of life and especially now in this world when we can see there's so much more out there than our limited viewpoints. Maybe the design of it all is for us to all kind of gather in that way so that we can pull more from it and see Christ in and through people in all of those places.

Tim: Well, it's interesting when you're talking about going to Church, that idea of you want to go to a place with people you like. And I was thinking that's all of us. At the bottom, we go, "Well, no, we should be doing this." But it's really, we be like, "Nope, I'm hanging out with people that I want to hang out with." Well, that's what made me so sad this past season. We had so many people that disagreed with us and they just bolted instead of going, "Hey, what if we just had a bigger conversation? We might agree to disagree, but we're still the Church when Jesus is still Jesus and it's okay to have these differences." which made me think about that when you said that.

Mishi: And in fact, I think when we are seen disagreeing agreeably, we're also representing Jesus. When there's a third observer out there who is witnessing us having a difference of opinion and still loving each other through it, that's representing Jesus. We're doing it.

Tim: It's that they will know where Jesus people by exactly by our love. That's fascinating. This is the experiment for the week, is truly what does it look like for us to be the Church gathered? So I guess the question is, I go on walks. That's what I do. Chris and I get to walk with these other dudes and not in the Christian sort of way, literal walks. And I think the base of it, it feels like it's intentionality. It's not that every part of the conversation needs to be, "Well, let's make this a holy thing." We can talk about anything, but at some point there's an intentionality of like, "Here's me, where's Jesus and all this?"

Mishi: And it doesn't have to look one way. I think the beauty is that, you mentioned it before, I want to take care of my health so I want to go walk. But I'm going to invite people to come do it with me. And I truly do love gaming, but the beauty is you can game with anyone online and you share audio. And it's "like, I'm learning to do that with people." And it's not like, "This is my time, for me. No one touch it." And then, "Yes, we'll go get breakfast, but that's not what I wanted to do, maybe." There's a hybrid of this is what I love and I also love you. So I want to do that together.

Chris: I'm going to walk backwards some episodes too. And I think if we-

Tim: I thought you literally were going to say [crosstalk 00:44:24].

Mishi: Listen, if you didn't like that...

Chris: No, no, no.

Tim: This is going to be the most fun walk ever.

Chris: I think we can see ourselves as blessed and these other people as blessed, call that out, see Christ within both of us just as we stink in whatever circumstance we're in, then we're being the Church. And it doesn't have to be Jesus see it, doesn't have to be anything. It just has to be who we are, where we are when we are.

Tim: With Jesus, the awareness that he's with.

Chris: We're just aware of what God is doing in our lives and in their lives, whether we like it or not and kind of no matter what the circumstance is.

Mishi: There's an extraordinary in being really kind and really patient and really humble and really listening to people. There are all things you can do without even uttering the name Jesus. And one of the first things I learned in ministry is that people like to have something to do. So whether it's a walk or whether it's a game or inviting whoever to chop celery for a soup you're going to make or I need help scrubbing my walls because my kid just threw up on it or whatever it is, there is the act of inviting someone to do little things. And it's in the moment that you're hanging While you're doing the thing, that's where you're representing Jesus. That's it. It's in that posture really. And I find that to be such an honor.

Tim: Well, guys, that is the practice for this week. So the practice is be the Church gathered and please gather for your 80 minutes. But would you figure out what it's look like for you or maybe you're already doing it. I was helping our Church community out with small groups, if you will. And what I noticed was people already have people that they're doing life with. And we were putting in these simulated little groups of people like, "Hey, you should be best friends, do this." And it was like you already have people for the most part, most of us have those people. And if you don't, let's have a different conversation, but most of us have people that we're already doing life with in some way. And what's it look like just to be intentional in those conversations, not to get anybody into your club, but just to be intentional as if Jesus is with us? So anyways, that's the experiment. Thank you, Emmoe.

Emmoe: You're welcome. This is fun.

Tim: Thank you, Chris.

Chris: Yeah.

Tim: Thank you, Mishi Sherry. Thank you for helping make 10000 MINUTES happen.

Mishi: Oh, man. I just feel like a proud mama.

Chris: OG from the OC.

Tim: OG from the OC.

Mishi: But we don't say OC.

Emmoe: We apologize. The Orange County.

Mishi: No, listen, you can call it whatever you want.

Tim: Yeah. Well, people, if you want to join... Did you just look over there?

Emmoe: I always do because I'm ready. Who's going to give me my close up? I'm ready to be a star.

Tim: Oh God. If you want to learn more about 10000 MINUTES, go to 10000minutes.com. I think Mishi was there when we actually got that. See, OG. If you guys want to get the free text message, you can text 10K10K to 55678. Once again, 10K10K to the number 55678 and we'll send you some encouraging text messages. What did I forget? I probably forgot a lot of stuff. If you guys do want to donate or kind of partner with us, we don't do Patreon at the moment, but you can go to 10000 minutes.com and donate there.

Mishi: And can I just say, share the heck out of these podcasts. These guys, these are gold. They're gold. They're easy. They're fun. I'm hilarious.

Emmoe: That's so real.

Mishi: Just share, subscribe, do all the things, stars.

Chris: Rate 10 out of 10.

Mishi: Exactly. All the stars.

Tim: Every time.

Mishi: Five out five, Chris.

Chris: 10 out of 10.

Mishi: Get it.

Tim: Okay. That's it.

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