010: Lead With Grace
The lovely Hilary Timmons joins us this week as we continue to RETHINK expectations, examine negative self-talk and explore the ways we choose to show up every day. What expectations have you placed on your family? Your friends? Your church? Have unmet expectations shaped your relationships?
This week’s Practice:
Lead With Grace
+ 010 Lead With Grace - Hilary Timmons Transcript
Emmoe: So amazing.
Tim: Hey everybody, Tim Timmons here with the 10000 Minute Experiment. And to my right, I've got Emmoe Doniz.
Emmoe: I'm here.
Tim: To my good looking left, I've got-
Chris: What are you going to say?
Tim: ... Christopher. Do you go by Christopher? Have I asked you that?
Hilary: Uh-huh (affirmative)
Chris: Mom says it-
Tim: I should've asked you that.
Chris: ... McKenzie, she ... Our son, youngest son, is Christopher Chase. When he's in trouble, he gets a Christopher. And then every time I'm like, "Is it me?"
Tim: You feel it?
Hilary: Anxiety?
Chris: Yeah, I do feel it.
Tim: Okay. So, Christopher, Chris Cleveland over there, and if we've already done in another episode, God Bless America. And all the countries, really.
Emmoe: And you're reg, welcome. You're a regular.
Tim: Yeah. Yeah. You're regular. And then to my super hot left, everybody. And I mean that on all levels, miss Hillary Timmons. Hillary Beth.
Hilary: That's right.
Tim: Hang on. I'm going to do this for you Hilary.
Hilary: Okay. Is that my spit card? Okay.
Tim: I've been licking it and hoping that when you kissed it, you'd kiss my mouth.
Emmoe: You lost me. You lost me way early.
Chris: I'm still here. It's fine.
Tim: Okay. So, we've got my wife on this podcast, everybody.
Emmoe: Woo-hoo.
Chris: I'm pretty excited about it.
Emmoe: We're Hilary fans.
Tim: You should be.
Hilary: Thank you.
Tim: Yeah. So, Hilary's got a lot of things to say about me in this, which is going to be great. A lot of inappropriate things.
Hilary: Always.
Tim: If there's any dirt you want to share, just chuck it out at me.
Hilary: Okay.
Tim: Do you guys have any questions for Hillary
Emmoe: About you?
Tim: Yeah.
Chris: It would take too long.
Tim: Hey everybody, thank you so much for listening to this podcast, it has been so much fun for us to do. So, before we get into today, would you please rate this or would you subscribe to it? Would you even leave a comment? Only if it's good. And if you want to support what we're doing, because this has been encouraging for you, or you're getting the text messages or whatever, you can just go to 10000minutes.com, there's little donate button up in the upper right hand section, either monthly or just a big gift, that would be super helpful. Thanks, you guys. Like the other ones, this episode keeps getting more profound, and more profound as the episode goes on. So, here we go.
Tim: Here's the best part, right now we've got a tutor upstairs. It's the first time we've ever had a tutor at the house.
Chris: Okay.
Hilary: Yes.
Tim: And then we're doing this down there, and who knows what's happening upstairs with all-
Hilary: I know.
Tim: ... 200 kids, and a tutor. Poor tutor sitting up there-
Chris: There are a lot of children up there.
Tim: ... with our four kids and a dog.
Chris: And she's probably like, "Am I the babysitter now? Did my hourly rate just double?"
Tim: Yeah, we could totally say, "Hey, is there a way that you could feed the twins?"
Hilary: Totally. Breakfast.
Chris: Just text, "Hey, the laundry-
Hilary: Some eggs.
Chris: ... is in the dryer. Could you grab it? Thanks."
Tim: I mean, is there such a thing? A tutor-
Chris: Also carry the two, and-
Emmoe: So rough.
Tim: Yeah. Yeah. So, they're doing math right now, and she's tutoring math, and it's addition. So, that says something about us.
Chris: That's where you quit. It's where you're like, "Nope."
Hilary: We're out.
Chris: That's my ceiling.
Hilary: Yeah.
Tim: Any-who, everybody. Okay. So, we are jumping into the experiment from this past week, and the whole idea of it was to practice, to show up. So, we're in a series about expectations at the moment, and started out with our expectations about God and how we handle that. Okay. So, the experiment for this week was expectations, and expectations of ourselves. And so, one of my questions just to start off with, is there such ... Is that right? Is there such a thing? Is there such a thing as a healthy expectation of yourself? You have a thought?
Hilary: I want to say no.
Chris: It has to be, yes.
Hilary: What?
Chris: I think so.
Emmoe: I mean, isn't it comparison?
Chris: To what?
Emmoe: To a thing. I guess it just also depends on the expectation.
Chris: What is it?
Emmoe: I don't feel like I've had healthy expectations on me. I think I've had goals, and dreams, and things I'd love to accomplish. But when I start to expect something, I'm comparing myself to who I should be, or how I should be. So, they don't feel healthy to me. They feel like a reminder that I'm never really there.
Chris: But there's also baseline expectations. I'm going to shower this week. I'm going to feed myself. I'm going to make sure my kids are alive. Maybe you guys are doing that right now.
Tim: Yeah. Well, that's why we have a tutor upstairs.
Emmoe: Yeah.
Chris: So, then I guess the gray area is from baseline to I've spiraled out of control expectation of myself, somewhere in there, there's a healthy balance.
Emmoe: Is it a healthy habit though, not an expectation? Or a healthy discipline?
Chris: I think it is.
Emmoe: Is that what a healthy expectation is?
Hilary: I think we have to have expectations of ourselves. I mean, it gets into the conversation about, we can't just wait for God to do all the things for us. We have to ourself into relationship with him, into relationship with each other, relationship with ourselves, and interacting with the world. And I think expectation probably speaks to this is how I want to show up in those areas. But I do think it so easily becomes an idol.
Tim: Is expectations the wrong word then for the thing that we ... I mean, one of the lines that I love is expectations are premeditated resentments. That line is fantastic.
Chris: Premeditated resentment, because we won't meet the expectation?
Tim: Yeah. I mean, you just think about an expectation of something. Because yeah, an expectation generally will not be met. And that's why I get so mad at myself. I mean, even this practice this week, showing up, and Hilary knows this so well about me, is that whenever I do something that I deem as dumb, I think I'm dumb. I mean, I go straight to saying, "You're such an idiot." I'll be holding three things in my hand, big things. And then I'll drop one of them. And I'm like, "Timmons-
Chris: You knew this was happening.
Tim: ... you knew this was going to happen." Or no, no. I actually was like, "No, I can actually make this happen." And I didn't, I blew it. Is it an expectation on myself? What is that? It's an unmet ... What is it? Expectations are premeditated resentments.
Chris: I have such an inflated view of myself, I feel like. Even when I fail, I can get there, but when I approach it, I'm like, "I got it." So, it doesn't feel like premeditated resentment. I'm just like, "No, I'm going to do this and it's going to be great." And then if I can't then I'll blame someone else, or something. I don't know. If I'm honest.
Hilary: I mean-
Chris: Not a great character trait.
Hilary: ... that definition definitely is looking at expectation from a negative lens. I don't think it always has to be negative, but-
Emmoe: That's good.
Hilary: ... it is so common that we get disappointed in our expectations.
Chris: Yeah, that's right.
Hilary: So, it's easy to see it negatively.
Tim: Okay. So, is there another word for expectation that might be a better way for me to see that word? That's the healthy part, or is it just that expectations actually have a healthy side and a shadow side?
Chris: I think it's just about how realistic you're being with ... Are you being honest with yourself? An honest expectation is this is what I know I can do. I want to get back in shape right now.
Tim: Again, McKenzie, come on out.
Chris: Yeah. Right?
Tim: This is something we all want to talk to you about, Chris.
Emmoe: No?
Chris: No listen, I had this photo shoot videos thing this week, and I had this stylist and she's asking me my sizes. I totally gave her all the pre-pandemic sizes. We came in there to put pants on and I'm like ... I mean, I was stretching. I had to go buy all pants another size up. I was like, "Oh my gosh, no." I've got to get pre-pandemic pant size. These 32s aren't aren't making me feel very good about myself, but-
Tim: PPPS. Sorry.
Chris: ... no way that's going to happen in a month with me chowing Welch's fruit snacks every night by the handful-
Emmoe: But it's Welch's fault.
Chris: Yeah, it is.
Tim: By the way, that's one of his things we learned last week.
Chris: I'm seriously addicted to them.
Hilary: Those are good.
Chris: I ate another box yesterday.
Tim: He eats a whole box, it's so good.
Emmoe: It's a confession every week.
Chris: Yeah, you're welcome. So, I could have an expectation of like, "Okay, I'm going to get in great shape." But then I have to give myself reasonable and honest parameters and goals of that. It's not going to be in a week, or even a month, but in three I could see some real progress, you know what I mean? So, it's being realistic about some of those things, and being able to be honest with yourself about it. And that's probably the hardest part is being honest with yourself about anything.
Emmoe: I think I'm still on the other side because we can expect one thing, but we can't expect everything. So, what about everything realistic we were expecting in 2020, and then 2020 happened? Where I'm like ... Or maybe it's just the way we respond expectations, it's not expectations itself, right? But it's ...
Hilary: Right. Can they be fluid? Can we roll with it if they need to change? And I wonder in the spiritual Jesus realm, could it be like hope? Is it equivalent to hope? I mean, we need to hope, is expectation kind of an arm of hope?
Chris: I like that.
Hilary: But yeah. Again, we just get disappointed with expectations.
Tim: I mean, does everybody-
Hilary: Hope gives a different spin on that.
Tim: I mean, you know that in our marriage, just watching me as a human for 200 years as we've been married, my expectations ruin me.
Hilary: Yes.
Tim: But I wonder if that's everybody or is that just more me than other people?
Emmoe: No, no, that's me, too.
Hilary: That's me.
Chris: Yeah.
Hilary: You too? Because you felt the most positive about-
Chris: Well, here's the thing. After years and years of doing it, I can separate the artist piece of it. I get ruined a lot in that part versus the things I know I can control. Or try to control. And so, I can hold some of those things loosely. And then like pandemic style, after a week of wallowing, I was able to switch perspectives pretty quick. And there's probably some privilege in that, like the artist, not the player, have some savings, know that the worst case scenario isn't that bad in. I'm not going to die.
Tim: Right, yeah. Yeah.
Chris: All those things.
Tim: Privilege is a good word in that.
Chris: But it's weird how I can compartmentalize those things.
Tim: There's grace there that I keep thinking about that's really interesting. It's almost like expectations are inevitable. Part of showing up has been extending the same grace that I'm given from God to myself. Trying to think of all the times that I blow it, or do something stupid, that I think I just totally blew my expectation of myself. And trying to go, "Okay, so what can I learn in this?" It's hard, man. It was hard for me to do this week.
Chris: I might be getting ahead of myself. Comparatively, to giving grace to other people when expectations are not met, are you better at doing that for other people than you are yourself?
Tim: I'm great at doing that for everybody outside of this house.
Chris: Yeah. Yeah. And my followup question was what about your wife and your kids? Because-
Tim: Well, good thing she's not here. So, I think the thing about her that's so lame ...
Emmoe: Catch these hands, Tim. I am in Hilary's corner, catch these hands.
Hilary: Thank you.
Chris: So, you can project your own inability to give grace to expectation to your family. But you're pretty good at giving grace to people outside of it. What is that?
Tim: I don't know. Do you have a thought for me?
Hilary: Yeah. I mean, I think you're most hurt by disappointments in expectation around me. So, it's just-
Tim: Or kids.
Hilary: And kids too in a different way. Maybe less hurt as-
Tim: Frustrated?
Hilary: Frustrated.
Tim: Frustrated is my second-
Hilary: Disappointed.
Tim: Yeah.
Hilary: And where it reflects your parenting in terms of behavior. And what you want for them. I think then you're kind of blaming yourself. Like, "Why isn't my kid behaving a certain way?" So, there's some frustration at yourself-
Tim: Totally.
Hilary: ... it's all a lot rolled into-
Tim: Totally.
Hilary: ... one thing. But the emotional stakes are so much higher here with our immediate family, I think, than we can give so much more grace with friendships that we're not-
Tim: Totally.
Hilary: ... leaning on as heavily.
Emmoe: Yeah.
Chris: I feel similar. I do the same thing to Kenzie, and if she were here she'd probably say, "Yeah, you do."
Tim: So, how do you deal with expectations on yourself? This week, as you're thinking about that. And I mean, the first question is what do we believe God expects from you? What's what are his expectations of us? Because I want to see the world through that lens versus just a psychological lens.
Emmoe: Right. Okay. Remember those dogs I talked about last week?
Tim: Yes.
Chris: Yeah, I remember you not showing up to the recording.
Emmoe: Listen. I know all our fans across the world want to know what happened to those dogs.
Tim: Oh my gosh.
Emmoe: Well, they're fine. But am I? That's still not answered. Okay. But listen, these dogs ... Okay. So, I was invited/paid to dog sit. And I was like, "Let's do this. I know these dogs," whatever I expected an easy week, they expected an easy week.
Tim: The dogs did?
Emmoe: Enjoy the hot tub. I don't know they did-
Tim: Oh, the family did. Yeah.
Emmoe: ... but the family did. And I spiraled. Tim got a great phone call with Moe just crying her eyes out. Like, "I don't know what's happening," all to reveal this weird expectation I think God has on me, that I don't think he does where I'm like, "I will always have to endure the worst by myself." That's an expectation because he's enough. I do this in quotations, not because he's not enough. But because I've twisted that truth.
Chris: Oh, man.
Emmoe: To a way where it's like, if he's enough and he completes me, and he ... All these things-
Tim: God.
Emmoe: ... God, then yeah, the worst I should be able to endure by myself. So, if this dog dies, he knew I could handle it. But that reflects like, because my brother died and I was supposed to handle that. Now I have to take care of my parents and I should be able to handle that by myself. And I was just like, "Debbie's dogs. And they told me to use the hot tub, and I can't." And I'm just a hot mess, but really I'm like, "Oh yeah, I have a weird expectation on me because I think God has an expectation on me about how I should survive things all the time on my own because of grief." So, I try not to have expectations, but I do have them and they tend to be negative. You're so right, Hilary. A lot of them are negative, and a lot of them are like, "Huh, I'm trying to do things with ..."
Emmoe: In grief terms with a broken leg. I'm trying to do all these things as a normal person, but my leg doesn't work anymore. That's how I feel all the time. And those are the expectations I have.
Tim: Okay. So, I just had a thought as you're saying that. Just okay, we won't talk about dogs anymore. You're good.
Emmoe: Okay, okay. I'm triggered. They're great dogs.
Tim: They were great dogs.
Chris: Still alive.
Tim: Still alive.
Emmoe: Yeah, they're-
Chris: Thriving.
Emmoe: ... they forgot about me. Like, "What was her name again?"
Tim: But as I think of expectations, it's almost like feelings, it's like, well, feelings ... Because they can be so dangerous. Feelings can be. Letting them drive, as Annie Downs said ut one time, that she had heard a friend say that feelings are wonderful co-pilots, they're just terrible drivers. It's almost like saying, "Well, I don't want to have feelings anymore," but it's not-
Chris: It's not that.
Tim: ... not having feelings, or trying to hold feelings out, or hold expectations at bay. But it's almost seeing them for what they are. I mean, it's kind of, Hilary, what you were saying earlier, but it's seeing them for what they are. And doing what with them?
Chris: I feel like this is the hardest conversation we've had. And why is that? You said, "I'm surviving." And I thought, "God, you're surviving. You're not living."
Emmoe: Yeah.
Chris: And that breaks my heart. It really does, literally feel kind of emotional about it because it's like, God, no, that is not what God has for you.
Emmoe: Yeah.
Chris: That's not it. And so, why do we do this to ourselves? Even through all the stuff that we go through. And all the things that we carry. It's like, gosh, God never meant for us to not be able to live. I honestly feel like it was the exact opposite, the whole point of this is the opposite of that. Why is this so hard for us to get through-
Tim: To forgive ourselves? To-
Chris: To even talk about expectations of ourselves.
Emmoe: Yeah.
Chris: All the way down to actually freaking live your life, and not be afraid of taking care of dogs. You know what I mean?
Emmoe: Yeah.
Chris: And extrapolate that as far as you want to go.
Tim: Right. Right.
Hilary: I mean, related to what you said, I think it's we're navigating a broken world and that's real. And so, I know you talked about this last week of what we expect of God. There's injury there for you because you lost your brother. And you would have to speak to how that's actually shaken down for you, but does God feel safe anymore? What can you expect him? He didn't take that away. He didn't-
Emmoe: Totally.
Hilary: In our journey, Tim was diagnosed with cancer in 2001, we were told early on he had five years to live.
Chris: Geeze.
Hilary: So, there was a period of time where expectations were shattered. And I wouldn't have said I expected God to give me a full life with my husband until we're in our 80s. But I think I expected that. I think life was relatively easy for me growing up. Nothing had happened yet. And that was my shattering. And so, then you're dealing with who is God? We live in a broken world. How do I justify those two things? What can I expect of him? What can I expect of life? And then is that where we pick up I got to fend for myself here? If your theology unravels there I wonder then if that's where we start expecting/trying to control-
Chris: Trying to control. That's right.
Hilary: ... and avoid pain, and ... Yeah. Expectation, I think you touched on it. It's not difficult where we can control things. But when we get into areas that we cannot control yeah, then expectation becomes this really yucky mess of a thing. And-
Tim: I feel like I can control things. That's my problem is that I think the things ... I'm with you, and then ... But there are certain things that I feel like I can control. And when I don't do those things well, and somebody else spirals out because of me not doing my good work ... So, I totally agree. I just feel like I take it to the next level, and what I should be able to control I go beyond that.
Hilary: Right. Then the expectation is really high because you should be able to control those things. So, when you can't, you're really mad at yourself.
Tim: Yeah.
Hilary: Yeah.
Emmoe: So, maybe it's hard to talk about expectations because it has a lot to do with our identity. It sounds like when they're unmet, then our identity is changed.
Chris: Or we're taking a hit-
Emmoe: Kind of like what you said. Right, yeah. So, it's not so much like this didn't happen. It's like, I'm a person who doesn't make things happen, or whatever. That expectation starts to define us. Same with God, where it's like I ask God to heal this. And he didn't, so he's not a healer then. I think unmet expectations are hard because they start to-
Tim: Gosh, boy.
Emmoe: ... reshape an identity of ourselves-
Chris: Identity and others.
Emmoe: ... and others. And so, when we're talking about-
Tim: And others.
Emmoe: ... others, I'm like-
Tim: And God.
Emmoe: ... "How do I talk about myself? Well, all the negative things I know. Let me tell you those." Maybe that's the hard part.
Tim: Gosh, expectations do. It's so true. I mean, I'm thinking about my kids and when I get frustrated with my kids, I'm expecting them to be logical. Duh. This is how this goes. I mean, can you not see how A plus B ... That's a terrible thing, equals C?
Emmoe: Yeah. Logical.
Tim: By the way, we have a math tutor upstairs.
Emmoe: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Hilary: Perfect.
Emmoe: Your turn starts in like 30 minutes.
Tim: Yeah. Mine's at 10:30.
Emmoe: You expect your kids to be logical.
Tim: I expect my kids to be logical, and A plus C equals L, obviously. And they're not. And so, I literally get so frustrated because I go to the far end of their lives, and I go, "They're going to be lame because their identity's going to be this bully if they do that again." I go all the way there, and I almost give them an identity. And then I give myself an identity as the bad parent, or whatever. And then I give God this identity of he doesn't do what I'm asking him to do. And that is so true. I literally called myself names. I mean, early on in our marriage, I remember asking Hilary, do you remember that? Do you remember that one time?
Emmoe: That one? You remember.
Hilary: 20 years ago?
Emmoe: You were wearing that ... Yeah.
Tim: Yeah. That thing? Speaking of that one thing, remember that honeymoon? Okay. There's that moment when I remember coming home to you saying, "Hilary, what do you see about me that I don't see?" Or how did I ask that? I said-
Emmoe: Oh, man.
Hilary: Something like that.
Tim: Yeah. What do you see in me that I can't see, that I believe ... Oh, that I believe about myself.
Hilary: Right.
Tim: And you said, "You think you're dumb."
Hilary: In certain areas, yeah.
Tim: In certain areas. And I was like, "No, I don't. Yeah, I do." I mean, it was such a crazy ... It was a great question that was encouraged to ask you from a friend, but you called me out on almost me calling myself a name my whole life.
Hilary: Right. Yeah. Yeah, putting on an identity that you'd felt at certain parts of your life. And then carrying it around.
Tim: I carried that forever, and it still has remnants today. I think I've been able to grow a lot in that even just from you calling that out in my life. Yeah, that was a total identity. And so, my expectations of myself, when they're not met, so if an expectation is a premeditated resentment, it's ripe for premeditated resentments. And I'm resenting myself for being X, Y, or Z.
Chris: There was a pastor that I worked with for a long time, and he would talk about marriage. And he had one piece of advice for everybody getting married. And he would say, "Lower your expectations, raise your commitment." And that was his key to a marriage that was it. Lower your expectations, raise your commitment. He said, "If you do that, then you can weather any storm." And I've always kept that in the back of my mind when it comes to relationships. It's like, okay, lower my expectation of people, raise my commitment to them. And I think even it works for ourselves. It's like, lower your expectation. Raise your commitment. This is a tough one.
Tim: It is a tough one. And this next week we're going to be talking about expectations of others, which that'll help. And even just that there are a few lines that have come up this past week, expectations can become entitlement, which is going to be big for that. And our expectations of God is not an obligation. That kind of hit me. I was just studying up on-
Hilary: He's not obligated to us.
Tim: Because of our expectations.
Hilary: Yeah.
Tim: And there's a bit of a holding space for God to be God, and me not to know exactly what's supposed to happen.
Hilary: In terms of expectations on ourselves, how do you guys ... When you get up in the morning, how does that play into your day? I mean, I'm sure it's not conscious, but what do you get up expecting of yourself each day? And then where does that go as your day plays out?
Tim: What about you?
Hilary: I think I have too much on my plate always, and I'm hard on myself, and I want to do it, if not perfectly, really well. And it's chaos, and I want to tame the chaos and I never can. So, in a day with kids, whether it's homeschooling, or getting the stuff done that needs to be done, I'm always coming up short. Yeah, that affects me hugely, because to constantly feel like you're just not making it, it's not a good feeling. And yet, that's all my self expectation. And I think when I'm coming at my day that way, as opposed to what does God have for me today? What might he want my eyes to be open to? And am I leaving myself the opportunity to be present?
Hilary: Because I think all the expectations get in the way of a kid coming up and asking a really vulnerable question, where I might have a moment eye-to-eye to really connect with that kid. And do I miss it because I got to ... I'm kind of a, for the Enneagrams out there, I have a one wing. And so, I like my lists and I want to feel like I'm taking care of business. And-
Tim: But even to the neglect of yourself. I mean, even for you to have-
Hilary: Oh, for sure.
Tim: ... your own thought, that's going during your day for something, you do a dress and go, "Huh, I'm going to stop and have wonder about why am I triggered in this way?"
Hilary: Yes, yeah. So yeah, I think I'm not present to myself when I live in that wheel of getting things done. I'm not to my children that they're in my day most often. I'm not present to you. I'm not present to God. And when you stack a bunch of days together that are lived that way, that adds up to a life. And that has really big repercussions.
Tim: So, for you, what do you call yourself? So, this [inaudible 00:27:26] of thing is really profound. What do you call yourself at the beginning of the day, or during the day, when you're not meeting your expectations of yourself?
Hilary: I don't know if there's a name I call myself, but it might be more of a description. Like I either did it, I made it, I pleased myself or I didn't-
Tim: Yeah, you met the expectation or you didn't.
Hilary: Yeah, I don't know-
Tim: Who are you when you don't-
Hilary: ... I don't think I'm someone that-
Tim: ... meet your expectation, which is daily.
Hilary: It's not a name. I don't say, "Oh, you're such an idiot." But I do say-
Tim: But would you say, "I'm weak. I'm ..."
Hilary: I mean, I think the message to myself is I'm failing. I'm always failing.
Tim: Failure.
Hilary: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Tim: That's who you are.
Hilary: Yeah. And that becomes who I am. So, I don't generally think of myself as a failure. I feel more valuable than that, but if I'm feeling like I'm failing every day in some way or another, that adds up.
Tim: What do we believe God expects from us. Hilary, what do you believe that God expects from you? As you wake up till you go to sleep.
Hilary: To be present with Him. It isn't any more I don't feel a disappointment from him, but I feel an invitation to that. And I refuse it often. But I think he wants me to be present to Him because that's where all things start. If I'm present to Him, I'm going to see things that I wouldn't otherwise see. And He's both going to transform me through that, and use me in the lives of my kids, or people I interact with in a day. And that's just a privilege. There's nothing special about me, but ...
Tim: Which is a privilege?
Hilary: To be used, to get to have that real connection with people, I think. To love.
Tim: Hilary, what would it look like for you to lean into every day with wonder and presence?
Hilary: Yeah. I think being intentional when I wake up, instead of jumping into the day, and the pattern that I live every day, to wake up and to sit with God and think, "How can I do this differently? How can I be present in all the little moments?" It's almost like I have an agenda of my own that's be productive, get things done, check it off the list, keep the ball rolling. And that leaves no room for what He wants to do in my heart, and around me, and through me. And I don't do this, I'm not good at stopping when I wake up and saying, "Hi God, I'm here to be with you, and what do you have for me?" And I'm sure I would have to do the ... Continue to do that throughout the day.
Tim: Yeah, I think it is. I mean, that's my favorite definition of prayer, this ongoing aligning and realigning to the heart of God all day. I mean, it just, it has to be that or else you're going to fail so quick. I mean, the second we get out of the house and somebody's like, "I don't want to," we just get thrown that out. And I mean, hence the X on my wrist of reminding me to go, "Okay, okay. You totally just got unaligned," or de-lined. What's the word?
Chris: Misaligned?
Tim: Misaligned?
Hilary: That's a good one.
Chris: Sure.
Hilary: We did it.
Tim: And then it's realigning to that heart all day long. Which is not easy, but that's hence why we're doing this experiment. All right, now we're going to jump into some questions.
Hilary: Okay.
Chris: Okay. [crosstalk 00:31:22]
Hilary: For what's coming.
Tim: Okay. So Hilary, we've got 10,000 thoughts. So, when I say a word or a phrase, what's your first thought? And babe, this is a speed round.
Hilary: Okay.
Tim: Okay? And there are a few things on here that are going to help me, hopefully we can make out at some point because of these. And if they hurt your feelings, let's just forget them all together. And then we'll just, we'll go to counseling-
Chris: Those ones I wrote.
Tim: Yeah. Those ones Chris wrote. I'm like, "Chris, not that one. She's not going to like that."
Hilary: Wow. A real friend.
Chris: But I've made him put them in.
Tim: Okay. Okay. Ready?
Hilary: Yes.
Tim: I mean, are you ready?
Hilary: I think so.
Tim: Speed round. Favorite summer activity.
Hilary: Swimming.
Tim: Anywhere?
Hilary: Beach.
Emmoe: She is really doing the speed round.
Tim: Watch your mouth. Okay. Best birthday or Christmas present you could get? By the way, this is recorded. Go.
Hilary: A chef.
Chris: Oh.
Hilary: To prepare dinner for me for a year.
Tim: Oh, shoot.
Chris: Oh, I like the ending.
Tim: Okay.
Chris: Just for you? Or for the whole family?
Emmoe: We're going to need-
Hilary: For the whole family.
Emmoe: ... a lot more downloads.
Chris: Okay.
Emmoe: Okay. Come on, people. Yeah. Pull your weight.
Tim: Yeah. If you guys could please download, subscribe, and rate, and tell all your friends. In fact, pay your friends to do the same thing. And then actually just pay more to money to 10000minutes.com and we'll buy a chef for 10000minutes.com.
Chris: We'll invite you over for a gift of $10,000 or above.
Tim: Yes, yes. We will-
Chris: Dinner with-
Tim: ... our chef will make you food. Honey.
Emmoe: That's a good gift, man.
Hilary: Right?
Chris: That is.
Hilary: That's my dream.
Chris: I just liked for a year at the end.
Tim: What am I? Chopped liver?
Hilary: You could be my chef.
Tim: Yeah, I could.
Chris: You could be.
Tim: With just an apron?
Chris: Do you also make really mundane statements sexual, like in weird ... Like, "I could be your chef." I do that all the time.
Hilary: Oh, all the time. All the time.
Chris: It could be anything, and she's like, "What? That doesn't make any sense."
Hilary: Right? It doesn't work-
Chris: I'm like, "Yeah, it does."
Hilary: ... all the time.
Tim: Gosh, I think it's hilarious that I ... We still have things, I'm not going to go into them now, but there's some really funny ones that I think are hilarious. It's the stuff that I'll do every day that I think that's really funny, but she's like, "Wow, that did not help nor did it turn me on. So no, I think we're ..." Okay. I think it's all the time we have questions.
Emmoe: Lord.
Tim: Okay. Is there another gift or present? Because I'm kind of always looking for ideas. So, I thought this was the right place.
Hilary: Oh
Tim: That you could get. I mean, just a birthday or a Christmas, Hanukah-
Chris: Anniversary.
Emmoe: I mean, the chef was great. But just something else.
Tim: Yeah, maybe something realistic, with realistic expectations?
Hilary: A massage never hurts. A massage.
Tim: Massage.
Chris: That's pretty good, too.
Tim: Okay. Are you going to say every day?
Hilary: Every day-
Tim: For a year?
Hilary: ... for a year.
Tim: Could this massage be a chef as well? Okay.
Hilary: Well. What's happening?
Chris: It'd be a weird room.
Tim: Okay. Who's the best French kisser, I don't know, in this room who's bald and has a beard?
Hilary: You just answered that for-
Tim: Okay.
Hilary: ... yourself.
Tim: Oh Chris, is out your question? That's so crazy.
Chris: It was.
Tim: Okay. Pet peeves.
Hilary: Pet peeves.
Tim: Yeah. This is a-
Hilary: A quick round.
Tim: ... quick round.
Hilary: Pet peeves.
Tim: When I say those inappropriate things and you think they're so stupid?
Hilary: That would be one. No, that's funny. Slow drivers.
Tim: Slow drivers.
Hilary: Oh, whining from my kids. Whining, fighting.
Tim: That's just bad parenting. Keep going. Any other pet peeves?
Hilary: Any other pet peeves?
Tim: Maybe something your husband does?
Chris: About your husband?
Hilary: No.
Chris: Wow. She's lying.
Hilary: I mean, yeah, probably lying.
Tim: Okay. Let's move on to this one. I think we're doing great. Boy, that was your question. I think it was inappropriate. Last thing that made you laugh.
Hilary: I mean, sitting in this room?
Tim: Okay. That's that's most of ours. Lifelong dream.
Hilary: I don't know that I want to write a book per se, but I want to write.
Chris: Okay.
Hilary: Let's say write a book.
Tim: You should. She is very gifted in that stuff.
Hilary: Thank you.
Tim: Just not in math. Current obsession besides your husband.
Hilary: I mean, I don't know that I have time to have an obsession.
Tim: Yeah.
Hilary: I get into running, but that comes and goes.
Chris: I remember.
Hilary: Yeah.
Chris: Making us look bad.
Tim: Yeah. If you remember from earlier podcast, Chris was talking about one of the walks that we went on.
Chris: She just blows by us.
Tim: And Hilary, just all of a sudden, we just see her running. "Hey. Hey guys."
Hilary: You were having great conversation though.
Tim: We sure were.
Hilary: You didn't even see me for-
Chris: That's probably why we weren't going fast.
Hilary: ... minutes.
Tim: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Chris: Just wrapped up in-
Emmoe: Just being present. [crosstalk 00:36:06]
Tim: Yeah, we had already-
Emmoe: Just showing up.
Tim: ... run a few laps. Okay. Lucy the dog.
Hilary: Yes. Oh, what I think when you say her?
Tim: Yeah, 10,000 thoughts, Lucy the dog, our dog.
Hilary: Chewing up things.
Tim: Yes.
Hilary: Chewing up shoes.
Tim: When I say her name, that's what you think?
Hilary: Lucy the dog, chewing things. Yes.
Tim: I'm so happy. I had a whole bit that I was going to wait for you to say something really great about her. I literally wrote, "Wait, let her answer, then say peeing, pooping, barfing on stuff. Chewing crap."
Hilary: No-
Emmoe: See? Expectations. I mean, you just got to show up.
Tim: Expectations of the dog. Is that the next part of others?
Chris: Oh my God.
Tim: Is my dog part of my expectations of others? Because I mean, honey, I've lost my-
Hilary: Because you have inappropriate expectations of that dog. You got to let him go.
Tim: It's a her, it's a her.
Hilary: It's making you miserable.
Emmoe: Deja vu. Literally.
Tim: Let the expectations go?
Hilary: Let the expectations go.
Tim: We're naming, giving pronoun to the expectations.
Hilary: Yeah.
Tim: Crap.
Hilary: Yeah. Let him go.
Tim: Okay.
Chris: Tim Timmons-
Hilary: She's going to pee every time you get her out of the crate. And then if you expect it, you won't be disappointed.
Chris: Every time. Yeah. That's true.
Emmoe: Full circle.
Chris: Change your expectations.
Tim: I don't know how to do that.
Chris: I refuse to do it with a dog. She makes me so mad. Not your dog.
Tim: We should have her and Lucy-
Chris: We're going to bring the dogs in for an event.
Tim: Yeah. For a podcast?
Chris: Yeah.
Tim: All right. Cujo, what do you think? Just biting crap, peeing everywhere, perfect. This is the spot.
Chris: Yeah. This is great.
Tim: Hilary. Thank you for being on this with us.
Hilary: Thank you for having me, guys.
Tim: Best guest yet.
Chris: Oh my gosh.
Hilary: I don't know about.
Emmoe: For real.
Tim: And if you two could leave the room, we're just going to talk for a second.
Chris: How long do you need?
Emmoe: I'm on a time crunch, Tim. You're going to ask to reschedule that. Okay, buddy?
Tim: It's about two minutes, but it's going to be powerful. I just mean to hold hands.
Hilary: Wow.
Chris: I don't know how you got her to marry you.
Tim: When I met her, I told my dad, "This is the most amazing girl I've ever seen, or hung out with in my life. That's the girl I would love to marry. There's no way I would ever marry her." But yeah, it's a pretty great story. She was engaged, I was in her engagement.
Chris: Oh my gosh.
Tim: Down at our school. He asked me to do the drum roll for the top 10 reasons why she should marry him in front of the whole chapel.
Chris: Oh, that's a thing.
Tim: So, I was on there. And so, it's just the three of us up at the stage, and I did the drum roll for it. And then he broke it off a few months later, and she was devastated-
Chris: Apparently there weren't 10 reasons. For him.
Tim: Yes, apparently.
Chris: What a jerk.
Emmoe: You're like, "I'm a outdo that, 10,000 reasons."
Tim: What's up. What's up. That's why this is called 10,000 Reasons. Experiments, minutes. No, if you're listening right now and you know who you are, I thank you. Truly. I am so thankful-
Chris: Big time.
Tim: For all that happened.
Chris: I was engaged before McKenzie.
Tim: You were? So, that other guy-
Chris: I was.
Tim: ... that was with her now is thanking you.
Chris: Yeah, his name's Chris as well.
Emmoe: Guys, wait.
Chris: It was a whole thing. Another podcast.
Emmoe: This is wild.
Chris: It's fine.
Tim: Yeah.
Emmoe: 10,000 facts.
Chris: It worked out.
Emmoe: Next time.
Tim: Okay. So, this next week, speaking of expectations, on The Experiment, on the 10000 Minute Experiment, we've got 10,000 expectations. And this has been really good. This has been really good for my heart. So, expectations of God, expectations of ourselves, what that looks like, having grace, and just showing up and being present with God in the moment. Wow.
Chris: Hard.
Tim: And then expectations of others is this week, which I think is the hardest one for me. But maybe that's not true. I mean, they're all so connected. Even as Hilary was talking about bringing it back to, okay, but at the base of this, what do you believe to be true about God? How he sees you? So, the practice this week is actually going to be lead with grace, giving the benefit of the doubt in all circumstances. We're just going to see how that experiment goes. We might come back and go, "Man, that was not it. Actually, that was not the best practice. And I found what the best practice was in the midst of all this." But just our hypothesis is, is that in our expectations with others, that if we would, this week, lead with grace, the grace we've already been given, we walk with no matter what, that we would actually be dispensers of grace this week.
Chris: My guess is we still have to figure out ourselves-
Emmoe: How to show up.
Chris: ... first. Yeah, how to show up and then be able to give it. I feel like I'm better at giving it to other people than myself. Grace.
Tim: What do we expect of other people around us? Kids, close relationships, church, community, friends, drivers. I haven't really thought about this, but I ... So, I'm going to say something that I probably will regret, but good thing nobody's going to listen.
Chris: Perfect.
Tim: I expect everybody to just do the next right thing.
Chris: Yeah.
Tim: To think about others and do the next right thing.
Chris: Problem is, is we all just have different versions of that.
Emmoe: Yeah.
Tim: Totally. The biggest expectations that I hold on people are generally my wife and my kids. And my freaking dog. I mean, it's totally true. I mean, I really hold high expectations for my dog. Oh my gosh. Timmons, who are you?
Emmoe: See, you get it.
Chris: We hold the highest-
Tim: What do you mean?
Emmoe: You get the dog ... My fears with these dogs.
Tim: I do. I do. I do.
Chris: We're going to get a side dog podcast. Actually. It's going to be on the Animal Planet Channel.
Tim: Yeah. Yeah. PETA. Or is it PETA? We'd be so taken out by that.
Chris: So, I think we all have the highest expectations for the people that we love the most and are closest to us. And for me, even personally, it's ruined relationships of my closest friends. I've had a hard time having lifelong friends because expectations of break, one way or another, and I could be the one breaking them. Probably am most of the time.
Tim: Yeah. So, I don't know what it'll be for any of you people this week, or for you guys this week. But let's just start out with this as the idea of lead with grace, because our identities are already secure in who we are. We're already loved. We've been given so much crazy grace, just breathing is a grace. What would it look like for us to then represent that grace to other people? And I think about my wife, or things that she will say or not say, or do or not do, that I can so quickly go to a place of, "Gosh, I told her I needed this and we're not getting that," but I'm not even going to all the things that are going on in her life. I mean, I'm just going to what my needs are.
Chris: Requires you to see outside of yourself.
Tim: Yeah. Like-
Chris: Not just be present to the moment, but be present and intentional with people. So it's like, if we're doing this with God, we're also aware enough of the people around us, and care enough to be with them too.
Tim: A friend would always talk about holding space with people. And the idea is that you're not looking at me, but it's like I'm holding up this clear box in my two hands up in front of me. And it's almost like putting whatever just happened in this clear box. And it's just sitting and looking at it for a second. So, when somebody offends me or hurts me, or does something, this is like if we all had the moment just to go, "You know what? I'm great right now, what I'm going to do is I'm going to take a step back and just put this thing in this clear box, and just observe it, and just observe it with wonder, and go, 'Hmm. What's really happening here?'" And I'm actually not what that person I think when she doesn't do this for me, I go, "She doesn't love me." That's my expectation of her is that she will do this for me. Yet what actually is really happening here, and how could I have more grace than just trying to get what I need to get in this moment?
Emmoe: And I think when you know people, it's easy to assume motive, too.
Chris: Oh man, we do that so much.
Emmoe: So it's like, but I know you did it. I know you didn't come through because you're mad at me from last week, and-
Chris: And we don't give those people enough grace either.
Emmoe: Yeah. So it's like, motive has a lot to do with it, because if I don't know somebody I'm like, "I don't know. Maybe you're having a bad day. I'll give you grace." But if we stack on top of being blessed, it's like grace has already been given to everyone. It's a lot of acknowledging it when responding to an expectation not being met with others. Because I will be quick to, like, "I knew it. I knew it. My gut was right." I am a gut person. So I'm like, "I knew you weren't going to come through, but is the motive is because you're against me or is it because I knew you were having a bad week and I didn't lean into that with you?" Or whatever that might be. So, maybe leading with grace this week, at least for me, will be to not jump to the motive, because it satisfies to be right. Especially with the people you love where I'm like, "I knew it." But instead of sacrificing that to be present with wherever the other person's coming from might be how leading with grace for me will look like.
Tim: So, that's really what we're going to lean into this next week. So, everybody, if you join us with this, if you want to get the free text messages, please text 10K to 55678. 10K, one zero K, in the subject to 55678. And we will send you two free texts that are just encouragements of reminding of whatever the practice is. So, do that. Check out socials. We actually would love to hear from you. You can always let us know. You can always email us at mail@10000minutes.com. You can go to Chris Cleveland, stuff or you go to 10000minutes.com, and make comments there. We'd love to hear what's going on.
Chris: Or just send mail to Tim's address. It is ...
Tim: 867-5309.
Chris: PO box.
Emmoe: We really should get a PO box.
Tim: What would people send us?
Emmoe: You never know.
Chris: Money.
Emmoe: So many things.
Chris: Cards. Cookies.
Emmoe: Kevin Garrett on Twitch got a PO box. People have sent so many things. Somebody sent him a monitor, like a new monitor for his streaming-
Chris: That fits in a PO box?
Emmoe: Yeah.
Chris: Because I've pictured like the PO box-
Tim: Yeah, I do too.
Chris: ... that [crosstalk 00:47:02] it's like a magician.
Emmoe: No, no, this man got the big one. And he was like, "I don't know. They might send me things." And then everyone sent him all these things and one of them was a-
Chris: Well, that's why I'd actually am here just for the stuff.
Tim: Yeah.
Emmoe: Totally. The perks.
Tim: Yeah.
Chris: Yeah. Some of you actually promised me a lot of-
Tim: If any of you guys feel like you want to have a 10000 Minutes trip to Maui, or you have a place in Maui that 10000 Minutes could do, or ... We're going to do a tour later.
Chris: We're announcing the 10000 Minutes Maui experience.
Tim: Yes. This is making it, all day.
Emmoe: No, no, we're cutting this.
Chris: It's going to be great.
Tim: I'm not cutting this because this is right. I think somebody knows somebody, that knows somebody in Maui, and is like, "You know what? We need to have a conference in Maui."
Chris: How prosperity gospel do we want to be? Let's just name it.
Tim: I'm claiming this.
Chris: And claim it.
Tim: I'm claiming this. Okay. Well-
Chris: Jesus probably cares about that.
Tim: He totally cares, because Jesus lives in Maui too. I think he made Maui.
Emmoe: Expectations. We just talked about it.
Tim: Okay. Guys, we will see you guys next week. By the way, I'm not holding anybody else up to this expectation. You don't have to do this, but if you don't, my premeditated resentments are going to be good.
Emmoe: You'll notice them in our captions.
Tim: Oh. And if I don't have a dog by next week, it will have been rehomed.
Chris: You know what? Sure.
Tim: No, we're going to get letters on that, for sure. To our PO box. PO box 825-93000.
Emmoe: No.
Chris: Nashville.
Tim: Nashville.
Emmoe: We got 10,000, we got 93,000.
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