004: Blessed In My Stress - RETHINK Series | Podcast Ep. 004
Bart Millard, lead vocalist of Mercy Me, joins us this week to talk about college dropouts, his nickname: “Hovercraft” and his journey on rediscovering grace, Also, Mercy Me just released their newest album inhale (exhale), check it out!
Our new series: RETHINK invites us to see overused Christian words in a new light. This week we RETHINK blessed. How do you find yourself using the word blessed everyday? Are we blessed only when we lack nothing? Join us as we discover how God blesses us even in our stress.
This week’s Practice: Blessed In My Stress
+ 004 Blessed In My Stress - Bart Millard Transcript
Tim: Okay. Hey everybody. Tim Timmons here with 10000 MINUTES: The Experiment.
Emmoe: Yes.
Tim: And to my right, I have Emmoe Doniz.
Emmoe: Yellow.
Tim: To my hard left again-
Chris: Hard left.
Tim: ... wing.
Emmoe: That's his nickname. Hard left.
Chris: I don't know. I [crosstalk 00:00:19].
Bart: I would be the hard left. Wouldn't I be the hard left?
Tim: Maybe I'll be distant left. Far left. Maybe the far left. [crosstalk 00:00:23].
Emmoe: Around the around corner.
Tim: Dang it.
Chris: Like left field.
Emmoe: Around the block.
Chris: Left out.
Tim: Around the block to my far left. Gosh, I've said that a few times. I hate myself.
Chris: No. [crosstalk 00:00:33]-
Tim: To my far left is Chris Cleveland.
Chris: Hey guys.
Bart: You said hard left and weighing in, I was like, "Oh, I like cake."
Chris: A lot of triggers.
Emmoe: Oh, no.
Tim: To my immediate soft left-
Bart: Yeah. It's good.
Tim: ... is Bart Millard. What does everybody call you? Not Millard.
Bart: Oh, Millard.
Tim: Millard.
Bart: Yeah.
Tim: "Did you write that song in Bart Millard?" Like, "Nope. I don't know who that guy is." "Are you friends?" "Nope. He is not my friend."
Emmoe: Too good.
Tim: Any who, Bart, we've got some real strong questions for you later that hopefully you'll start getting excited about and nervous about right now.
Bart: Okay. All right. Like now?
Tim: Yeah.
Bart: I'm starting to get nervous now. That's it. We're going to pause and let me get nervous.
Tim: Cats or dogs?
Bart: Oh, I've got both.
Tim: He's got both, you guys. It's so stupid.
Bart: It is.
Tim: I mean, we've made fun of cats before, and then all of a sudden you have a cat.
Chris: Is it a house cat or a barn cat?
Bart: We got it to catch mice, but it's never been outside in its life.
Tim: Yeah.
Chris: Makes sense.
Bart: It's Sam's fault. It's a great story, if you have time.
Tim: Yeah. And then you got a dog for Sam as well.
Bart: We've gotten three dogs for Sam in his life, two live with my in-laws and we have one. And then we have another one.
Tim: Bart is one of my BFFs and thankful for him in so many different ways. And we get to actually do life together, which is pretty great. And we both have 20 kids. He has 24 and I've got 20.
Bart: Yes.
Tim: And they're all BFFs. So that's a real gift. So I wrangled him in this morning. Well, most people know Bart as the lead singer of MercyMe or from the song and now the movie called I Can Only Imagine, but I get to call Bart friend.
Tim: And to be honest, I could care less about any of his accolades or his titles because he's just the dumb guy that I get to spend most of my time with. Bart is a great dad. He's a great husband. And perhaps one of the wisest men that I know now.
Tim: If you have ADD you're going to love this podcast. And if you get frustrated by the constant jumping around, we'll just stick in there because there's gold around each corner.
Tim: When I'm visioned these 10000 MINUTE Experiment podcasts, my hope was that you, the active listening participant would feel like you're on a walk with me and my friends, listening into our honest conversations around how Jesus invades our chaos and the mundane.
Tim: So get out your walking shoes, I think you're going to love this.
Speaker 5: (singing).
Tim: Okay. So we're going to go into the experiment. So this past week... By the way, we are counting how many times Bart drinks from his coffee mug.
Bart: The Christian drinking game. You need to cut that out too probably.
Tim: Nope.
Bart: Go ahead. I'll just [crosstalk 00:03:42].
Tim: Nope. Okay. Do you like old-fashion-
Bart: Yeah.
Tim: ... ice cream or do you like margarita [crosstalk 00:03:48] as a song? [crosstalk 00:03:49].
Bart: Yes.
Tim: Any who, so we're going to go into the practice. So the practice we're working on this week, we've been walking through or not walking through and no shame either way is that we've been joining Jesus.
Tim: So the song that we just heard a little bit of, because again, we all cried.
Bart: Whew. When God Ran In by Benny Hester.
Tim: Yes. Gosh.
Bart: That's a good one. [crosstalk 00:04:08]-
Tim: No, it's a song called This Is The Day, Bart.
Bart: (singing). What? (singing).
Tim: Yeah, three people will get that.
Bart: Sadly, that's a third time this week I've referenced that.
Tim: You used that bit?
Bart: I actually texted the lyrics to Ben Shive, who woke up in the middle of the night and said, "I was singing When God Ran and I knew you'd know."
Tim: Gosh.
Bart: Yup.
Tim: Well, Ben Shive produced this song. So I think we're doing great.
Bart: Oh, good.
Tim: This Is The Day.
Bart: There is the connection.
Tim: But the practice this week was, as my dad said a long time ago. And I remember this, when he said, "In the morning, you can either say, 'Good God, it morning," or we start out the day saying, 'Good morning, God. How do I just join you in this day?'"
Tim: We talked last week about what do we do when we wake up and whatever needs to happen to other day, I just go straight there and how it shapes our day. So that was the practice this past week. And so how did we do? What did we learn? As an experiment, did it totally suck? Did it work? Bart, you first.
Emmoe: Okay, perfect. Oh, like-
Bart: Are you serious?
Tim: Nope. No.
Chris: I'll go first. It sucked so bad. Literally from day one, it just hasn't happened.
Tim: Yeah.
Chris: And then I'm like, "What the heck?" During our walk this morning, we talked a lot about it and Lord knows what it is within me that's doing it. But it just has failed for me miserably.
Chris: I went to Christian college for like a second and whole nother story. Yeah, I got kicked out. It was weird. Ozark. OCC.
Tim: True? You really did? You got kicked out?
Chris: Yeah. For real. Yeah. Me and my brothers. Short stint. Played some basketball, didn't go to class.
Bart: What school was this?
Chris: Ozark Christian College for all of the crusaders out there. I heard a story that Rich Mullins got kicked out of the same college. It may be not true. But you had to go to chapel.
Tim: Right.
Chris: And when I was told that I had to, I was like, "No, I'm out."
Tim: Yeah.
Chris: But, so I always remember in college, just like I had a way better relationship with God when I was at the state school and I just had to do it on my own. That's how I felt this week. I was like, "You know what?"
Tim: Yeah, I love it.
Chris: Yeah. I've failed miserably. We could dive deeper, but that's the 10,000 foot view.
Bart: Okay. Is there a different Ozark College or is that the one?
Chris: I think that... I mean-
Bart: Is that the one that Walmart gifts to the-
Chris: Could be.
Bart: Anyway.
Chris: I don't know.
Bart: Small world. I was a horrible high school student, literally third from the last, in my graduating class because I just didn't get-
Chris: But how big was the class?
Bart: 74,000 students.
Chris: Three.
Emmoe: I was like, "Wait."
Bart: No, we were 400, something like that.
Emmoe: Okay.
Bart: But I never went. My grades were terrible, but I was good at testing. And so I got a really high ACT and SAT score.
Chris: That [crosstalk 00:06:51].
Bart: And I got a full ride to Ozark and I was like, "There's no way I'm going to, I'm not going to go to... You're not giving scholarship to learn, to be a smart kid."
Tim: Yeah.
Chris: Just want all my Ozark Christian College crusaders to know that Bart Milliard did not go to your school.
Tim: Yeah.
Chris: He came, he saw-
Tim: Nor did Bart Millard. Yeah.
Chris: Did I say Milliard?
Tim: Yeah.
Emmoe: But Bart Mollard did. Okay.
Bart: Bart Myler did as well.
Emmoe: '03 to '07.
Bart: Yeah, there're several.
Chris: Bart Millard did not come to your school.
Tim: Yes.
Chris: He came, he looked at it-
Bart: Nothing against them, just-
Chris: ...he said, "No, thank you."
Bart: ... it's a huge mistake to give me an academic scholarship.
Chris: Milliard.
Bart: Yes.
Emmoe: [crosstalk 00:07:29].
Bart: French.
Tim: I think for me this week, this was a really hard one for me. This has been one of my favorite practices, but this week was really difficult. And I had a terrible week with just family stuff, not my wife and kids, but just bigger family stuff.
Tim: And I know in the Psalm 118 was written in that crazy, dangerous, wild time, when they're saying, "This is the day Lord has made, I'll rejoice and be glad in it." I was like, "There's just not much to be glad in in some of these days."
Tim: And really the word glad is contentment. And I've been waking up, which is not a normal thing for me, I've worked through so much of my worry in life, but I've been waking up every night, in the morning thinking about this thing. It's been really hard for me actually join Jesus in these moments, because I'm mad about it, which I don't know, it just caught me different this week than it has other weeks.
Emmoe: I guess, I have a question. What does it look like for Jesus to be with you in those moments when you're mad? I think when we think about joining Jesus, being with him, there might be an expectation of how we should be. But what would it look like to think about it that throughout the week Jesus was with you and that's still the same thing in a sense.
Tim: Yeah. I think I did. Maybe this practice is so passive in and of itself. There's not like bake a cake for a neighbor or you know? That this is just an awareness of his presence.
Emmoe: Yeah.
Tim: I almost felt like I didn't do it. I'd wake up in the morning... It was a song that I wrote years ago, a pastor that I worked with. This is not even worth getting into. Oh, it's so dumb. We're going to cut this. We're going to raise this from the [crosstalk 00:09:18].
Bart: We thought there's only 6,000 minutes left.
Emmoe: Yeah. Seven minutes left.
Tim: But I remember this song. (singing).
Bart: Oh, we are singing it. Okay.
Tim: (singing).
Bart: We're going to cut now [crosstalk 00:09:30].
Tim: Oh, okay. I don't want to do it, guys but (singing).
Emmoe: That is so real.
Chris: There's this Michael Jackson thing this week, where Oprah's like, "I want to see you do a couple moves." And he's like, "Well, I'm rusty." And he gets up and then just starts moon walking and stuff.
Tim: Let's just cut this out. It's so embarrassing.
Bart: (singing).
Tim: It's so great.
Bart: (singing).
Tim: Totally. That's what I should have done. I should have hit that bit. Dang it. Oh, to hell [crosstalk 00:09:59]. 47 minutes left. I'm going to count to 10,000 minutes. [inaudible 00:10:01]. There's a song.
Emmoe: Time to shine.
Tim: There was a poem that was, "Good morning, Lord. It's good to see the sun again. Good morning, Lord. Great to talk to you again. Each day is a gift."
Bart: Well, you call it a poem, which is [crosstalk 00:10:16]-
Tim: Well, because it was a poem. The joke is that a pastor of mine in the past, he said, "Tim, I got some lyrics for you. Would you put this to a song?"
Chris: Oh I see.
Tim: And I'm like-
Bart: Mistake number one.
Emmoe: In there.
Tim: "Yeah, sure, man." And so I did and I put this to a song and it was a powerful song. I mean we would all be on the floor if I-
Chris: Still with you.
Tim: Yeah.
Chris: Now.
Tim: He said, "Man, I got this verse. I think it'd be great." So I wrote this chorus to it. I'm like, "That's gorgeous. I love this chorus." So then-
Bart: And then you were sad that you put it with the lyrics.
Tim: Yeah. So we did this thing and then later I found out and so he would always tell the church, "Tim and I wrote a song together."
Bart: What's his name?
Tim: Doesn't matter. So when Billy Graham would always go up on the stage, so he would tell people that we wrote the song and later to find out that the verse was a poem. No-
Bart: [crosstalk 00:11:04].
Tim: ... that somebody else had written.
Bart: No.
Emmoe: Plagiarism.
Chris: That is so-
Bart: And he had no clue. "Put it to music."
Tim: And so I fully put this song. We did a record for the church. This was a long time ago and I put it on there. This guy... Oops. Come to find out was the pledge of illusion. All a sudden his name of this guy that wrote this song and I've given him grief about this.
Tim: So I think we're fine. But is a pleasure of allegiance. That's what you said.
Bart: Oh, Gary.
Tim: So Gary and I-
Bart: (singing).
Tim: Anyways, oh my gosh. We're so off topic. I love it.
Emmoe: Oops. Okay.
Tim: So Gary and I wrote this song with some other poem writer. Anyways, the song, the point of the song... Crap.
Bart: Is the song anywhere to be like-
Chris: Can we listen to it?
Bart: It didn't make it [crosstalk 00:11:51]-
Chris: Because it only [crosstalk 00:11:52].
Bart: Hold on. Time out. It got recorded?
Tim: Yes. It got recorded. And we put it out like just as a church album, this wasn't like-
Emmoe: Okay.
Tim: This was pre... No, you can't even find it.
Emmoe: If he get sued.
Tim: I promise. Shoot. No, you can't find it.
Chris: [crosstalk 00:12:03] with an M.
Tim: Yes, it does.
Bart: All right, here we go again. That's a big church.
Tim: No because this is pre all that stuff.
Bart: Yeah, we'll see. Give me a random... Just don't tell me the title, but use it in a sentence.
Emmoe: Mm-mm (negative).
Chris: There's a MySpace [crosstalk 00:12:17]-
Emmoe: What does it rhyme with?
Chris: ... out there somewhere.
Tim: Yeah. It was called Good Morning, Lord.
Bart: Please.
Tim: No, you're not going to find it. There is a God. There's no way you're going to find it.
Bart: Well, not if I write goog morning, Lord. That doesn't work. My thumbs are so fat.
Emmoe: So happens-
Bart: Just saying.
Emmoe: ... when you invite your BFFs to a podcast.
Tim: It's so true. The other ones have been so smooth.
Bart: Come on. Keep going. You go ahead. We're going to find it.
Tim: I guarantee you you're not going to find it.
Emmoe: We got to order lunch.
Bart: Are you sure?
Tim: I think-
Bart: Quit looking at my phone.
Tim: ... you're not going to find it.
Bart: It's-
Chris: Is that the small phone or your hand's that big?
Tim: Oh, my-
Emmoe: It's the iPhone 12 mini, guys. Come on.
Bart: This is not the mini.
Emmoe: I just had a [crosstalk 00:12:59]-
Bart: This is the normal size phone.
Emmoe: I'm sorry Millard, I just [crosstalk 00:13:01].
Bart: Just call me Hagrid next time. I love how he goes, "Is that a normal size phone?" She's like, "It's called the mini." This is an iPad.
Emmoe: Listen, don't be ashamed of the mini.
Bart: This is the big iPad I'm holding. You guys are jerks.
Emmoe: The mini's trending. Okay?
Bart: I'm holding an iMac in my lap.
Tim: Oh, my gosh.
Bart: Good morning, Lord.
Chris: This is my favorite one. Yeah.
Tim: You still can't find it. I will play it for you guys.
Chris: No.
Emmoe: [crosstalk 00:13:30].
Tim: I will totally play-
Chris: Live?
Tim: ... for you guys.
Chris: You just saying half of it.
Bart: Yeah. Or did he?
Emmoe: He [crosstalk 00:13:34].
Bart: That or the national anthem. We don't know what he's just saying. All right. There's pastors check in. That's not right.
Emmoe: Was it Robert Frost?
Bart: Yeah, right.
Emmoe: Which poet?
Tim: I don't even know who the poet was, but it was straight up plagiarism.
Chris: I love that.
Tim: And so I was going out there like, "Yeah, this is a song we wrote together." And again, this is putting it out on the worldwide inter web. It just was on compact disc.
Chris: Compact disc.
Tim: If you guys remember those.
Chris: Yeah.
Bart: Well, you had to have played it live in church at least once.
Tim: I did.
Bart: Oh, it's got to be out there. For someone that's so certain you seem worried.
Tim: I'm a little worried, but I'll play it for you.
Bart: Okay. But it'd be more fun if you just started playing while you [crosstalk 00:14:14].
Chris: I think at the end of the podcast, you need to [crosstalk 00:14:16] for everybody.
Bart: (humming).
Tim: Oh gosh. This is a dumb podcast now.
Bart: Okay. Go ahead.
Tim: Emmoe, how did your week go?
Emmoe: It took me a while to differentiate doing things for Jesus and being with Jesus.
Tim: Right.
Emmoe: Because I thought I was doing things with Jesus. So I have a brother who passed away, don't mean to bring it down so sorry, in 2011 from a weird car accident. And every time I see a car on the side of the road, I pray, but I'm doing it. It's never been like I'm with Jesus knowing they're protected.
Tim: Right.
Emmoe: But I'm interceding. It's just a habit now because of my own thing, but I'm not really being with Jesus in my wound. If that makes sense.
Emmoe: I'm just touching it and we're passing on. And so this week and a half was like, "Whoa," there are things that I just do now that were a side effect of what I've experienced, but I'm not today presently with Jesus.
Emmoe: So it was hard. Some things were new. So being with Jesus and then praying for people, there was some peace doing it. Other times, doing the prayer, which still leave me with anxiety and worry and all those things. But being with Jesus, there was just a different form of peace I got to taste this week and a half.
Tim: Yeah. I mean, one of our questions that we always ask is, did you do this with him or for him? And I think this week, unlike other weeks, actually, when this has been a practice of mine, I did it this week for him, for the most part. And it failed miserably in that way, you know?
Chris: Yup.
Tim: Again, no shame attached to that whatsoever. It was just interesting knowing that I'm going to come back and talk about it. I started doing it, I did it for him. It's the whole point of this practice was actually to just realize that you're with him.
Chris: Right.
Tim: Bart, you have any thoughts?
Bart: What's interesting is initially when Tim told me about it, I think that for a lot of years, I have got to the point of understanding that if Christ is in me, that I'm always with him.
Bart: My initial reaction was that I went back to I grew up where if I do this morning well then I'm more with him. You know? And so it was like this and so it became somebody, we say, "Don't should us. Don't should me. Don't tell me what I should do."
Bart: And so I immediately went there, not like towards you, but I instantly went back to man, I don't know how many quiet times I've done thinking that I would then be with God as if I wasn't otherwise.
Bart: So I was really intrigued that. I went back to it so fast.
Tim: Yeah.
Bart: Almost defiant like, "I'm not doing this." You know?
Chris: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Tim: It's funny that we all did.
Bart: But then I was like, "Okay." There's something too in Hebrew that talks about the Jewish Christians overcome or the Hebrews are encouraged to not harden their heart to the spirit. There's something to that to where, and I've been trying to explain to my kids during the pandemic, this idea of trying to live a spirit led life, not spirit filled. That's a whole different thing. It's a pet peeve of mine.
Tim: Yeah.
Chris: Right.
Bart: I think the Spirit's in you the day you start this journey. And trying to explain to them in kids terms like, man... We stop at the same red light and there's this guy asking for money every day.
Bart: And so this all has a point, and one day I gave him money and then the next 20 I didn't. And my kids were like, "Okay, we're curious," because they're like, "Why then not now," or whatever.
Bart: And so I tried to explain to them, I said, "I can go either way." And I tried to explain Hebrew, I said, "I think that hardening your heart to the spirit." I said, "There are times to when I may feel led to do something, I ignore. It doesn't mean I'm less saved or whatever." It may impact my quality of life. I may miss a blessing, whatever you want to call that.
Bart: And I said, "But it's okay. Jesus still loves me. Nothing changes. It's just more of like, I may have missed just a really cool opportunity."
Bart: I said, "On the flip side of that, I could do it once because I'm led. And then all of a sudden it almost become superstitious where I think I have to do it every time."
Tim: Yeah, [crosstalk 00:18:33].
Bart: I'm not spiritless.
Tim: Right.
Bart: I said, "Either way, either place could be a dangerous place to be. And just they both could be bad habits." And so I said so, it's just and try to explain to them, "There's just something in you that's like, you can't explain it. But today I just knew I was supposed to."
Bart: So we started going through these lessons of just people we wanted to try to help financially in different ways and told them how trying to live the fact that Jesus is just there. He doesn't come and go. He's just there.
Bart: And it's more of accepting how crappy we can be at times and him still be there. And not only that, but still be pleased with us. It's harder for us to accept than anything and tell them.
Bart: So my point is I may miss these opportunities, but Jesus, isn't right there going, "Oh man, Bart doesn't know what he's doing."
Tim: "He blew it."
Bart: Yeah. But it's more like, "You'll get a chance. It's cool." It's that mentality. And then started leading him and just started helping I said, "Man, it's weird, but your mother and I, we've always, if we feel led to do something where it's a give and it's so funny because 99% of the time I'll look at her and go, 'Are you feeling it?'" And we'll always, almost every time name say the same amount if we're supposed to give or whatever it is.
Bart: And it's to where it's uncanny. And so we decided to try to include our kids on this stuff with some people, right when the pandemic hit, just people we knew were... I wanted, I said, "Man, who do you all want to help?" And one of them was like, "Our barber," that cuts our boy's hair that has seven kids. And his wife stays at home. Two kids have downs.
Tim: Wow.
Bart: He has one barber's chair. That's all he does. And they all were like, "We want to help him." And so it was amazing. And we talked about how much and went through the whole process.
Bart: And then I guess the coolest learning point was going through all that and then saying, "Just, you have to understand if we never lifted a finger, Jesus is still okay with you."
Bart: Jesus still adores you. This is not a bat phone to God like we're better now. And so it's funny, I've always joked about it's like anybody, whether it's music industry, I have a friend that's a gambling addict and he said, "I have no problem losing. I have a very big problem winning because it's hard to walk away."
Chris: Yeah.
Bart: And he's like, "Once you get it, it's like, 'Oh, I could get it again. I could do it again.'" And that's why I was trying to explain to them. I was like, "Man, we're going to probably ignore Jesus more than we hear him. And that's okay."
Bart: But just when you start thinking that the times I hear him, it's like a gold star and I'm a little bit whatever I said, "Does it impact your life and enrich your life greater?"
Bart: I believe so. Yeah. I mean, how do you not walk away and not be affected by that.
Tim: Yeah.
Chris: Right.
Bart: I tell them all the time and you know this, but I constantly try to tell them, "There's nothing you can possibly do to make Jesus love you more than he does right now. There's nothing you can do worse or less. It's not possible."
Bart: Anyway, so it's funny because I totally got when you're say the exercise, but I just went the other extreme and I just went to these weird wounds and stuff that I grew up with.
Bart: I will say that aside, on practical side I realized so much factors on my wife's attitude when the morning comes. In the morning, and I know it's no pun intended, the the wrong side of the bed, but if she's having a bad day, I will heap that on my shoulders a 100%, whether I want to or not.
Bart: If she's having a great day, it's different, I'm good. And even in this, I was fortunate to have both. One was a bad one and one was a great one with-
Tim: Both wives?
Bart: Yeah. With one, I can never get both to be happy.
Tim: Yeah. It's so weird.
Bart: No, the first day she was having a rough day and not only-
Tim: Wife A.
Bart: Yes.
Tim: I'm so sorry. [crosstalk 00:22:20].
Bart: Janet and Linda. No. [crosstalk 00:22:25]-
Tim: [crosstalk 00:22:25].
Bart: What's crazy is that the last two nights I've stayed until 5:00 in the morning because my wife started watching this dumb sister wives movie, shows.
Tim: Oh, that's right. We did talk about that.
Bart: To where they're picking third wives because we just don't have enough.
Chris: The movie or the show?
Bart: No, it's a TV show.
Chris: Yeah, I've seen.
Emmoe: Big love.
Bart: But it's not that. No, it's a new one.
Chris: And it's the real life one?
Bart: The couples are online trying to interview another wife.
Tim: Oh, wow.
Bart: So it's funny, you said both wives because-
Tim: So how many wives do you have then?
Bart: No, I don't have any yet. I've watched-
Emmoe: Blew it.
Bart: ... the show and decided it's a bad idea. Yes. After thorough research. No. Anyway-
Tim: Okay. Sorry.
Bart: The first day Shannon was having a rough day.
Tim: Thank you for the names.
Bart: And yes. Shannon was having a rough day and it was amazing how not only did it affect me, but how I just completely forgot about the practice altogether. It just went out the window.
Bart: And then the next day, well, and this morning too, things were great. And for whatever reason, I was more aware of the practice.
Tim: Totally. It's her fault when you have bad days.
Bart: Well, yeah. Well, it's just like anything when chaos or whatever hits, I mean, I can't find my wallet much less remember what practice we're doing.
Tim: Yeah.
Chris: Right.
Bart: But when things are great and it's easier to stay in that. Like everything comes unraveled. And I spent more time on the days where I was like today it was a good day. It's great. "I better do it this morning. I got to go to podcast," stuff like that.
Bart: That was fine. I don't want to say I was better for it or whatever. My point is, is on the days when I came unraveled, there was a moment later in the day when I realized what took place and I just sat in him still being okay with me and that him still being with me.
Emmoe: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Tim: Yeah.
Bart: And that did wonders for me versus just... Does that make sense?
Emmoe: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Bart: It's the same way some comedian talked about, "Man, if you go back to your childhood, you don't remember a lot of the good times, but you remember every time you were almost killed."
Bart: When your kids come in and they never blink and their eyes are a little bit like, "Oh no, what have you done?" And those are things that change you. And it felt similar to that.
Bart: On the good day I was like, "Yeah, of course. That's great. Yeah." On the days when it's like... And I think maybe it's a thing of like, "Jesus, you have no reason to be around me on that day, but you still were."
Tim: Yeah.
Bart: That for me personally, and what I grew up in-
Tim: Right.
Bart: ... that was edifying more than anything. Does that make sense?
Emmoe: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Tim: Totally.
Bart: Yeah. And so it's funny because I thought I ruined it on the bad days, nailed it on the good days, but walked away more impacted from the bad days. That's what I'm trying to say.
Tim: Yeah.
Bart: That's what I should have said and saved 10,000 minutes.
Tim: No. What's so interesting about this practice is the practice actually is less about the practice and it's more just about the awareness of the presence of God.
Tim: I mean, that's what the practice actually is. And I think we're all so addicted to, in some ways nailing the thing or doing the thing or pushing up against the thing. And this one, unlike the other one seemed to like, it all made us push up against the thing when we actually just wanted to do what the actual practice was was just to be aware of the presence of God.
Tim: And Bart, you've taught me so much in this and I love this. We didn't come from the same backgrounds. You know and I'm always saying this with the 10000 MINUTES, these are not things we're doing for God that we're earning anything because he loves us the same today that he did yesterday, if I did the practice or not. There's zero change in our relationship to him or his relationship to us. It's just our awareness.
Emmoe: I think it makes me think about instead of learning to belong, I'm learning that I belong.
Chris: Oh wow.
Emmoe: And I think that's the difference of the old covenant and the new covenant. And so as we live out our lives, it's like, "I belong all day with Jesus," instead of how it used to be, where I need to learn to belong in how purity looks like or being complete.
Emmoe: And I think that, yeah, the practice was so much more of just an alignment with a truth than it was to do something for the truth to be real.
Tim: That's good.
Emmoe: I'm still haunted by Patrick and how he's like an adventure with Jesus, that's exciting. But even on the worst days I still belonged and I didn't have to try to belong on those days. And that's what the practice challenged.
Chris: Well, you're preaching to me today, I feel like.
Emmoe: [crosstalk 00:26:51]-
Chris: Everything you said has been like, "Oh yeah."
Tim: Why? What-
Chris: That's why I sucked at this. That's why this was really hard.
Tim: Well, explain that.
Chris: I think both. The first thing you said about being with, or doing for. I'm a doer. And then I literally feel like we're like a day into this and I was sucking and I text you guys. And I think I gave up. I was like, "Screw this, I can't do this." For some reason.
Chris: And then what you just said about belonging, trying to belong verse, no, you just belong. All I've done my whole life is try to belong.
Tim: Right.
Emmoe: Mmh.
Chris: You know what I mean? I've wanted to be the basketball player so people would like me. Or I'm going to sing good so people will like me. Or I'm going... Whatever it is, even in this industry, it's like, "Well, I've got to have this and this and put on these things."
Chris: But really it's like, "Will you love me? Or will you just accept me?" And so even in this practice, I'm still trying to do that with God and I guess myself in the same way. It's like, "Well, I screwed that up so I might as well quit here."
Chris: I can look back at the week and say, "Oh, God was in those moments." There were some really cool moments that we had. But all day, every day, when I think about it, I'd be like, "I'm failing at this."
Tim: Yeah. It's also interesting is that the point of this was the Psalm 18, that everything was going to hell. I mean, it was just crap season for the Psalmist. It was in those moments when I'm totally with you, when Hill's having a good day, I'm having a good day.
Bart: Totally.
Tim: And it's their faults.
Bart: 100%. This episode's called what's up with women.
Tim: But it-
Chris: Emmoe, where are you going? Come back.
Emmoe: That's right. I'm staring right at you Millard.
Tim: The door just opened and shut [crosstalk 00:28:39].
Emmoe: Right at you, buddy.
Tim: This would sound [crosstalk 00:28:41].
Emmoe: We'll talk outside.
Tim: I think for me, the reason why this was so important to me and I didn't do it well this week because I think I did it for him. I was more focused on the practice than the presence of God this week, when that was the actual practice, you know?
Tim: But that it's in those crazy times that he was, or she was whoever or the Psalmist was, was praying this prayer, "This is the day you've made. I will rejoice. I will find joy in contentment in just your presence." That's really what the whole purpose of it was.
Tim: Why is that so hard for us? I'm just trying to figure out, this is called the experiment for a reason.
Bart: Right. Sure.
Tim: What do we learn from it? Because even if the practice sucked, we're still going to learn something about ourselves, each other and about God in the midst of it.
Tim: So I'm just curious what in us runs away from just the awareness of the presence of God when we are in a tough season or things aren't going my way that day or I'm stressed?
Chris: In places of stress, I will put things on my back and say, "I'm going to earn this or do this or be this. You can come if you want God, but I got it."
Tim: Yeah.
Chris: You know? And I lived a lot of my life like that. And it did fine until it didn't. For me, it was like made a bunch of money, but lost my family and it was a big an awakening to learn how to not be that person.
Tim: Yeah.
Chris: So I think in this practice, a little bit of that comes out. It's like, "No, I'm going to do this." But if I can't do it like literal, literally the practice is not doing anything. I'm like, "Oh, this is against everything that I am."
Tim: If we took the practice out the should do thing, which is so funny because it's not what it was at all.
Chris: We all made it that.
Tim: Yeah, in a sense. And we hear it that way. And so I think this practice is really saying, how do we just be more aware of our identity?
Bart: That's everything. I mean, me being the six and having trust issues. And just a lot of that came out of my childhood of just so much instability.
Bart: I hear stories of people having loved ones to where it's like, they love you unconditionally. I didn't have many in my life growing up, but those ones that are like... No, I take it back. My grandmothers were that way. To where there was never an issue of trust or that, what could I possibly do to make them walk out?
Bart: It was a given, no matter what I did, they will never leave. And so to me that's like, "Okay, that's the healthy view of Jesus," that I haven't had most of my life.
Bart: And so to even say, "I need to live where I'm more aware of Jesus being present," still isn't necessarily a positive thing unless I get to the point of, "Oh, I'm aware that he's present and absolutely adores me no matter what."
Tim: Right. That's good.
Bart: So yeah, being aware is like the boogeyman in your closet sometimes.
Tim: Right, because his presence could be, he could be like saying, "You suck."
Bart: Well, he's always watching you.
Emmoe: Right.
Bart: Yeah, you can't hide. And that's creepy. But the fact that there's no reason to hide even on my worst possible-
Tim: Right.
Bart: ... day when I lose my cool with my kids or whatever-
Tim: That's so good.
Bart: ... that he's that one that doesn't see me differently, which is hard for me to comprehend because it just doesn't exist or I didn't think it did.
Bart: And so that's, for me to be reminded of that and be aware of it is usually when I take time to be alone or just not to sound cliché, but literally to be still and know which I don't do a lot of. It's typically if I'm driving.
Bart: I have severe ADHD and the only time that I don't have it with my hands on the wheel, because I don't want to die. And so that's why I write everything. That's why I do everything is driving. And so it's usually those moments, but yeah, it's literally for me just stopping.
Tim: So do you have to stop and remember who... I mean, this is the ABCs of actual worship, of our attention is stopping and remembering who he is and having a right view of him. And then it's turning it back on you with that filter.
Bart: Yeah. It's getting past me, just being aware that he's present and the shame and the fear and the weirdness that's with that. But getting to, "Oh, right. And he is crazy about me." At my absolute ugliest, he is somehow crazy about me.
Bart: And that's the practice of if you tell yourself that enough, if you stand around truth enough, it's going to start to change you. You're going to start to believe it.
Bart: And so that is a practice of just like because and if feels like I could do it a million times and get in a really great place, but then it takes one moment and everything feels like it comes unraveled.
Bart: And for me, nothing changes. He's still there and he's still aware.
Tim: Yup.
Bart: I've just lost sight.
Tim: I guess that's the question is what does it mean to lose sight?
Bart: I think for me personally-
Tim: Yeah, for you.
Bart: ... is to lose sight of the fact that he's okay with me. That he's always there. I've settled in and he's always there. I really, 100%.
Bart: I still work at sometimes, always there is that he's ashamed of me or that he's disappointed.
Tim: It's what you hear.
Bart: Yes. And so that's losing sight.
Tim: Yeah. Good.
Bart: I've never thought he's ever left me in my worst time in my life that's never crossed my mind. It's more of, he has to be appalled by me.
Chris: Wow.
Tim: Yeah.
Bart: And so that's losing sight and falling back into that shame and the past and all this crazy stuff. And I go there often. Somebody told me that whatever the preacher preaches most about is probably what he's struggling with the most.
Bart: And I feel like I talk about this more than anything and will for the rest of our career. Somebody asked me one time, they emailed us and said, "You keep saying that he's okay with us. He's okay with us."
Bart: I'm like, "Because I need to hear it. I'm not even thinking about you. Sorry, but I need to keep saying it out loud." And I will. Even with Shannon, having a bad day and it derailing me and we've talked about this, but if something's wrong, like if our kids fail a test or if just Shannon's having a bad day, for some reason, I put all that on my shoulders.
Tim: Yeah.
Bart: That's on my watch. It's my fault as a father, as a, whatever, you want to call it, as a provider, if she's having a bad day, I instantly think it's because I missed something.
Bart: Dude and I'm not kidding, like we have a crack in the drywall of our house and I said, "It's fine. I've asked some people." And then she was like, "Can I have the number of the builder? Because I want him to check."
Bart: And I instantly took that like that was all me.
Chris: Like an offense.
Bart: That was all me.
Tim: Yeah. You blew it.
Bart: And yeah. And it was just her basically telling me that you suck as a husband. That's what I heard.
Chris: Oh, wow.
Tim: Yeah.
Bart: And to the point to where we've been married for 23, 24 years. And she's like, and in that moment too, she goes, "Okay, first off, this is not a slam on you." She has to say that. And that ticks me off too because she knows me that well. And she's like, "This is not ever..." But yeah.
Bart: So that's losing sight is falling back into that and it feels like you climb this whole mountain to get up on a unicycle on a tight rope.
Bart: So you do all this work to be on the most unstable ground, not Jesus, but me to where it's like, "I did it." And then you-
Chris: [crosstalk 00:36:13].
Bart: ... fall over with just a slight breeze and that's the irony of it all. But yeah, it's like this, what we're doing now, this kind of stuff is big for me. It's just the same as like confessions. Saying the stuff out loud is me being aware and being reminded. And that's why you do the podcast. It's why you write the songs. Yeah. Sorry. Short answer.
Tim: Yeah, please don't speak anymore.
Bart: Yes.
Tim: You're listening to 11,000 minutes. All right, Bart, so this is 10,000 questions right here.
Bart: Okay.
Tim: We'll take 10,000 minutes.
Bart: Right.
Tim: Who's your favorite cartoon character and why? It was a speed round, by the way.
Bart: Cartoon character. Comic book or?
Tim: Bart, I asked one question.
Bart: Oh, Calvin & Hops.
Tim: Calvin & Hops, and why?
Bart: Just they're-
Chris: That's to [crosstalk 00:37:06].
Bart: ... smart butts.
Tim: Okay.
Emmoe: Never fails.
Bart: Wait, which one's the-
Chris: I don't honestly know.
Tim: Did you say smart butts.
Bart: Yeah. They're just sarcastic-
Tim: Smart butts.
Bart: Yeah. Well, I didn't want to say the other one. I'm just saying you said no cursing.
Tim: Yeah. So what's your favorite dumb phrase [crosstalk 00:37:23] smart butts.
Emmoe: [crosstalk 00:37:24].
Tim: Okay. If a movie was made of your life, what genre would... Oh yeah. Crap. Who'd play you? These-
Bart: [crosstalk 00:37:31].
Tim: ... questions suck.
Bart: So dumb.
Tim: Okay. Describe yourself in three words. Go.
Bart: Was that a real question?
Tim: No. It actually was a question-
Bart: So dumb.
Tim: And I just thought it was funny because I thought it was funny.
Bart: Funny you should ask. What was the other question?
Tim: Describe yourself in three words. Go. It's a speed round.
Bart: In three words?
Tim: Yup.
Bart: Okay. Maybe next question.
Emmoe: I mean, okay.
Bart: Very, very, very fluffy.
Tim: Very, very, very fluffy.
Chris: My wife asked me to do that to her the other day. I was like, "Mom." She was like, "What?"
Bart: Oh yes.
Chris: "But you are. You're a mom." She was so mad.
Bart: 12 year old. That's how I would put. 12 year old.
Tim: 12 year old. Okay. That's good. What is one thing that annoys you the most?
Bart: Just one?
Tim: Or a few. Give me a few.
Bart: A few is the third sneeze.
Chris: Oh.
Emmoe: That's real.
Bart: Sneezes come in two. Have you not ever noticed when there's a third-
Emmoe: That's real.
Bart: ... sneeze it bugs me a little bit.
Emmoe: They just want attention now.
Bart: I think so. It's all about them.
Emmoe: Needy.
Chris: Okay.
Bart: Ordering drive through for my children.
Tim: Yes, we talked about that.
Bart: I'm hoping Jesus does step out.
Chris: I have breakdown.
Bart: I do too just because I'll circle, I'm come around the horn, I'll come back around.
Chris: Yeah, I will not go back through, it would make me-
Bart: See.
Chris: ... so mad.
Tim: Why does it annoy you so much?
Bart: I just don't like people waiting on me or being unprepared, especially when the line goes faster than we thought. I'm like, "what do you want?"
Chris: Yes.
Bart: I'm like [crosstalk 00:38:51]... Yeah.
Chris: I feel seen.
Bart: Yeah.
Tim: What is your favorite joke?
Bart: My favorite dad joke is, and the Lord said come forth and you'll have eternal life. Sadly, I came in fifth and I got a toaster.
Chris: It's a dad christian joke.
Bart: Yeah.
Emmoe: No.
Bart: That's the one I keep-
Chris: Which is another level. Yeah.
Bart: My band crew hates me for it, but I keep using and my kids hate me for it too.
Tim: So you say that one often? I don't think I've ever heard you say that.
Bart: Really?
Tim: Yeah.
Bart: Oh, I say it all the time. I just think it's funny and dumb. I came in fifth and got a toaster.
Tim: Yeah.
Chris: It's pretty good.
Tim: Yeah. Wow. Any other ones?
Chris: George Foreman grill.
Bart: Yeah. No, that's the best one, I guess.
Tim: Okay. So if your life was made to a movie... Okay. So if you had access to a time machine, where and when would you go?
Bart: Shea Stadium to see the Beatles play.
Chris: Oh.
Tim: Ooh.
Bart: Yeah, that would be cool.
Tim: Okay. Strong. That's a wrong answer, but it was strong.
Bart: Oh, yeah and see Jesus.
Tim: Yeah. Okay. That's the correct answer.
Chris: I was hoping you wouldn't say that actually. It's was like, "Please don't give me [crosstalk 00:39:47]."
Tim: Golgotha. Yeah. Okay. So the first thing you think of when I say this nickname. First thing that comes to your mind.
Bart: Hovercraft.
Emmoe: Say less.
Tim: Oh, God.
Bart: I played church league basketball, and I had a one inch vertical.
Tim: [crosstalk 00:40:07]-
Bart: So my name on my Jersey was hovercraft.
Tim: Oh my gosh. Thank you.
Bart: My one inch vertical.
Chris: I've been kicked out of so many church league basketball.
Bart: Oh yeah.
Tim: Hovercraft. Okay. First thing you think of wet or dry.
Bart: I'm sad to say wet. I don't know why, but that's the first I get into mind.
Tim: Best or worst tour prank.
Bart: I hate all tour prank. So worst is what's done to me.
Tim: Okay. What's the worst one that's been done to you?
Bart: I got duct taped to my mic stand and had syrup and flour poured on me-
Tim: Oh my-
Bart: ... by Kutless and Audio Adrenaline.
Tim: Oh my gosh. Okay. Two more. Greatest fear.
Bart: Failing.
Tim: Ooh, that got real.
Bart: Mmh.
Tim: Favorite kid.
Bart: Sophie. Yeah, hands down.
Emmoe: Oh.
Bart: No question, not even close. Just with the pandemic, she rallied hard.
Tim: Yeah.
Bart: They all played Fortnite and she helped me the whole time so she wins.
Tim: Yeah. Okay.
Bart: No really. She's my favorite.
Tim: I love that.
Bart: No, that's the ongoing joke I tell them all, "You're my favorite. Don't tell the others."
Tim: Yeah. I've started to do it with my kids because Bart does that and I watch him and I'm like, "That's genius. I'm going start doing that."
Bart: You're my favorite. There you go.
Tim: This feels right. Bart, thanks for doing this.
Bart: Yeah, man.
Tim: So friends, if this has been helpful, would you scribe to this or even just rate it for us or make some comments only if they're good.
Tim: And if you want to get free text messages that will encourage you during the week, then text 10K in the subject line to the number 55678. So the number is 55678 and then you text 10K one zero K. And we'll send you all that stuff. Or just go to 10000minutes.com and let us know how this is helping.
Tim: So here's the introduction to the practice, the experiment that we're going to try out this next week. Thanks for joining us.
Tim: Okay. So we're back. We've got Emmoe Doniz.
Emmoe: Hi.
Tim: We got Chris Cleveland.
Chris: What's up?
Tim: From the Stars Go Dim.
Chris: Oh yeah.
Tim: What if it was the stars go dim.
Chris: Whatever.
Tim: Okay.
Emmoe: We'll circle back.
Chris: Yeah.
Tim: What I love about that last hang with Bart was, and for all of us is that I love that this actually called the experiment because these are experiments, not things that we've nailed.
Emmoe: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Chris: Yeah.
Tim: And I think there are things that are being revealed even in those conversations about us. And I am curious and we did talk about it on our walk, Chris and I talked about it on our walk this morning about because we go walking.
Chris: We do, we walk.
Tim: But of why it was such a hard practice. So this next practice I'm actually excited about. We're starting a new series right now, what we'd like to call a new series it's called rethink.
Chris: Great.
Tim: And so we're going to go into words that are just religious words that we've always just said. And I just want to rethink our thinking. So to repent something is to rethink our thinking on something.
Tim: So this is rethink hashtag blessed. That's what these next three weeks are going to be. So I mean that phrase is thrown around so much, you know? Like, "I'm blessed. God blessed me here. I'm so blessed by this. I just got a job. I'm blessed."
Chris: Yeah.
Emmoe: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Tim: So what is the word blessed mean to you? When you hear that word, what do you think?
Chris: I think like Kirklands makes a lot of money off of signs. My mom buys all of them. I saw a picture of my mom in a football game the other day, her mask had blessed on it. I was like, love you mom. Really do.
Tim: Yeah.
Chris: But I feel like we've made a catch phrase out of it a bit. And it looks great on our walls. I don't know what it means.
Tim: Yeah. What do you think, Emmoe?
Emmoe: Makes me think of Bruno Mars and the lyrics, "Julio get the stretch," right?
Tim: The stretch.
Emmoe: Yeah. And then he says like I'm blessed.
Tim: Yeah. Hashtag tag blessed, he says literally.
Emmoe: You think of when the money's flowing, when the things are flowing, I'm blessed.
Tim: Yeah. So the question is when do you feel blessed? I mean, think about it-
Chris: Honestly-
Tim: Honestly, if how we use that in our own life and let's not try to overthink this. How do you feel?
Chris: I feel them most-
Tim: When do you feel blessed?
Chris: ... blessed in the moments when I can recognize, like be present in the moments with my kids and family.
Emmoe: Hmm.
Chris: But I hate using that word-
Tim: Right.
Chris: Because it feels like a word that I would use in a interview with the radio station.
Tim: Right.
Chris: Because they want to hear it, if that makes any sense.
Tim: Yup.
Emmoe: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Tim: Yeah. What about you?
Emmoe: When I feel blessed, I feel spoiled.
Chris: Huh.
Emmoe: And a little bit of it brings me shame. So not that I don't love being blessed, but I sometimes feel like is everyone else being blessed? I feel a little unbalanced. I have a hard time celebrating what I think blessings are. So it feels like a little bit of too much spotlight on me.
Chris: Wow.
Emmoe: Yeah.
Tim: That's good.
Emmoe: So that boldness of like Julio, get the stretch. I wouldn't flex like that. I'd be like, "I don't want anyone to know I have a limo or a cool friend named Julio." That's too much. And I would be like, "We should all have limos and we should all have Julios. And so I shouldn't have this." Blessings are weird with me.
Tim: Yeah, just the phrase of being blessed.
Emmoe: Yeah.
Tim: Yeah because I think actually that resonates with me as well that I think through, "Why am I so blessed?" I've said this. "Why am I so blessed to live where I live, to have what I have," all the things. And apparently that's actually not even the definition that biblical definition.
Chris: I wondered blessed or the what? All those things.
Tim: Oh, come on.
Chris: What was he actually saying? What does that mean?
Tim: Yes. Go.
Chris: How have we screwed this up? I don't know. I'm asking.
Emmoe: He was saying everyone gets a limo. He was saying every everyone's getting a chauffeur.
Tim: Why are there kids dying right now?
Emmoe: Yeah.
Tim: We've all been on compassion trips where you see these crazy stories with these kids dying. It's like, well, so are they not blessed? And I am blessed or like you know.
Chris: A lot of times I walk away from those trips thinking, "Oh gosh, they got way it more right than I do."
Tim: Yeah. But that doesn't fit in our American, whatever, Western or our religious idea of-
Chris: Right.
Tim: ... blessing.
Chris: Yeah.
Emmoe: Or who carries it too. Just the idea of going to a place like that. And it's like, oh, am I the blessing?
Tim: Right.
Emmoe: Right? So was there lack of.
Chris: Huh.
Emmoe: Those things are trippy.
Tim: Who's the mission trip for?
Emmoe: Yeah. What in the world?
Tim: We're going to get into the definition of blessed. So we're going to take three weeks on this. This week is on blessed in my stress.
Chris: Wow.
Emmoe: Which I don't know if we know that that's, I don't think that's connected yet to our heart.
Tim: Blessed not stress. What's that phrase?
Emmoe: Too blessed to be stressed.
Chris: Too blessed to be stressed.
Tim: To blessed to be stressed.
Chris: Thank you Kirklands.
Tim: Right.
Chris: That's good.
Tim: Right.
Emmoe: And all the stress people out there are like, "Well, great. Screw me."
Chris: Yeah, that's right.
Emmoe: "Don't worry about me, guys."
Tim: Oh, I'm in the message. That's why.
Emmoe: The message is fire though.
Tim: Yes.
Chris: I've been on the Message for two years.
Tim: It's so good.
Chris: I just needed a-
Emmoe: To find your way.
Chris: ... change. Thanks.
Tim: Yeah.
Emmoe: Just kidding.
Tim: I've been on for three years.
Chris: Have you?
Emmoe: It's sweet.
Chris: I love how you took that as, I thought that was cool.
Emmoe: You're such a blessing.
Chris: Like, "I've been on it for a while." I don't know. It's like a club that I know about.
Emmoe: Ahead of the trends.
Chris: Yeah.
Tim: I love that I've used the message version in some of my videos or whatnot and I always get a text or comment from somebody going-
Chris: "That's not the bible."
Tim: "That's not the original bible." I mean, it's like, oh my gosh.
Emmoe: They're like-
Chris: Yeah.
Emmoe: I lent-
Chris: I know.
Emmoe: ... I loaned, someone has my King James. I can't grab it right now.
Tim: Yeah. Okay. So the definition of blessed is favored or favor. And then there's also made holy.
Emmoe: Made holy.
Tim: Right.
Chris: Made holy with a H.
Tim: Well, actually what's so cool about it is it's actually both.
Emmoe: Right.
Chris: So made whole.
Tim: It's made-
Emmoe: Because holy is the definition of, holy is to be made whole. So it's layered here.
Chris: Wow.
Emmoe: So the definition would say to be blessed is to be made holy, which is being made whole.
Chris: Wow.
Emmoe: Tada.
Tim: Yeah, in the crappy situations of life. That's actually, if we think about where we've actually made whole, if I think about that holy, but really W-H-O-L.
Chris: O-L.
Tim: Yeah. I'm actually being made whole in the crappy situations that I would never say I am being blessed.
Chris: Right.
Emmoe: Right. Which brings more curiosity into the beatitudes.
Tim: Yes.
Emmoe: Because when you read those, you're like, "That's not why I bought my hashtag blessed sign."
Chris: Yeah.
Emmoe: You know?
Chris: I didn't sign it for this.
Emmoe: Yeah.
Tim: So I'm just going to read the, I love that you brought that up, Chris. So in Matthew five, Jesus us saying, "Blessed are the poor in spirit for theirs is the kingdom of God. Blessed are those who mourn for they will be comforted. Blessed are the meek for they will inherit the earth. Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for right living, right ways for they will be filled. Blessed are the merciful for they will be shown mercy. Blessed are the pure in heart for they will see God. Blessed are the peacekeepers for they will be called children of God. Blessed are those are persecuted because of righteousness," which just stops me in our place right now thinking how many times we think we're being persecuted right now.
Chris: Ooh.
Emmoe: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Tim: Burp.
Emmoe: Oh boy. Not ready.
Tim: "For theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are you, when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me rejoice-"
Chris: Oh, man.
Tim: ... that's from last week.
Chris: Yeah.
Tim: "Rejoice and be glad because great is your reward in heaven."
Chris: I would love to dive into the back end of that for-
Emmoe: There's just a lot.
Chris: ... a long time.
Tim: I mean, and so I-
Emmoe: A lot.
Tim: That is worth diving into.
Chris: There's a lot. Yeah.
Tim: So we're not going to right now.
Chris: Perfect.
Emmoe: Sweet.
Tim: The idea for this week, because there are so many different interpretations of that.
Emmoe: Right.
Chris: Yeah.
Tim: Emmoe and I talked about it earlier this week, how one of my favorites is a guy named Dallas Willard. And he talks about, these are not things that we need to go do, these aren't things we need to go attain so that we are blessed.
Chris: [crosstalk 00:50:52].
Tim: It's places you find yourself-
Chris: Yeah.
Emmoe: Right.
Tim: ... in life.
Chris: Okay. Yeah.
Tim: And there are so many different interpretations of this and everybody thinks theirs is right, which is great. So if blessed this week blessed in my stress, how am I being made whole this week? So if the fullness of God is already in us, we don't have to work for the fullness of God.
Tim: It's like the fruit of the spirit is actually in us. It's just a matter of us tapping into the spirit.
Chris: Okay.
Tim: Or not even tap it just being, it's our awareness of the spirit for me.
Emmoe: Yeah.
Tim: So when I'm tapped into the spirit, when I'm plugged in, as Jesus would say in John 15, when I'm attached to the vine, that's when the nutrients actually comes out of him into me. So the fruit actually then will bear in my life.
Chris: Okay.
Tim: So the blessing here is that we would actually see more of the fullness of him in life, but it only happens in crap.
Chris: Hmm.
Tim: Thoughts. Go.
Emmoe: Well, I mean, it flips it because when we, I mean, I say we, but I think in the past when the blessing has made me uncomfortable or I'm thinking about how I'm blessed right now, it feels unnecessary.
Emmoe: But if we're thinking about completion or me being made hold than it is necessary. Me being blessed in that moment is because I came up short with whatever I had.
Emmoe: So being blessed is not an extra sprinkle of God over my life. It's the completion of how I was not complete without it.
Emmoe: And so I think that's just going to change the way I see again, we've been layering it, but just the way I see the best and the worst parts of my day. And I think you reading the beatitudes, I think hopefully we all resonate with something.
Emmoe: So I even think about like those who mourn are blessed and how I'll always feel incomplete without my brother and the fact that I'm being blessed by God completing the rest of that. It's like, "Wow, I'm always being blessed." And I wasn't seeing it that way.
Tim: Yeah, because what's the blessing in your situation with losing your brother? What does it mean that you are blessed in that situation? Because this stuff so much of our Christian, and I'm put putting that in quotes lives seem to be put into this crazy thing where it's like, "Well, be joyful in this."
Chris: Yeah.
Tim: But that's not even what joyful means.
Chris: Like what?
Tim: So what does it look like for you to actually still be blessed with losing your brother? And you may not have a good answer to that.
Emmoe: Yeah. I mean off the bat, I think a blessing would be that not all was lost. And I think that's a thing with grief. You just feel like everything moving forward will be less than what it was.
Emmoe: And God blessing me is that the next season is always doubled with his love. And there's always so much more, it's not like I'm slowly leaking a thriving life, the older I get, but it's that things continue to bless me, make me whole, even though I'm always broken in this part of my life. If that makes sense.
Tim: Yeah.
Emmoe: I mean, I know there's so much more I'm going to dive into with my grief, but-
Tim: What is God using in your life to make you whole? Just as you think about these past few weeks.
Chris: I think we talked about this this morning. Like growing up, I grew up in not an abusive immediate family, but there was like a lot of sexual abuse that happened down through my mom's side of the family that trickled into grandkids and stuff.
Chris: So as I was telling him all of this stuff and we were thinking through it, I stopped and said, "Honestly, this podcast has been maybe a way for me," because I was talking about just the story, but I can't figure out or I don't know the resolution yet. And maybe this is like you with your brother too.
Chris: I don't know the good part. And I'm like, "I could write a book about it or I could do these things," but I'm like, "I don't have the Jesus bow yet."
Chris: And I told this to my wife, I'm like, "I think I'm supposed to tell this story somehow, but I don't know how." And so I think one of the things that could be for me is just doing this podcast and being able to just have honest conversations about things like that, these things that just don't add up for me in Christianity or faith or things that we've just screwed up, like being blessed that is hard to unlearn.
Chris: And then being able to come in and have conversations with other people and then hear you guys' perspectives on it. I think it's helped me in the process of making me whole in some of those places.
Tim: Yeah. I mean, it's why we want to do this rethink concept is let's rethink a bunch of this crap that we've just taken hook line and sinker.
Chris: Right. We've all put on like facades. We're not living like true-
Tim: And not even intentionally. I think I just haven't even really thought of the word blessed. And when I've used that, it's not just the word that I've used, but it's the concept that actually comes along with the word that I've used that I actually believe in my heart.
Tim: So I live out of the overflow of my heart and in my heart, I actually believe that I am blessed because I had a song on, do well on a single or because I live where I live or that I'm blessed.
Tim: And it's always rubbed me so wrong. It was like, well, but that's what I believe to be true about God. He has blessed me. I don't know why he hasn't blessed other people.
Emmoe: Right.
Chris: Yeah.
Tim: And it just is starting to jack me up a little bit.
Chris: You just can't align that when you go to the places and think, "Well, I guess God hasn't bless them."
Tim: Yup.
Emmoe: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Chris: It doesn't align because blessing either works in the slums of Guatemala.
Tim: Right, Chris.
Chris: And here or it doesn't work.
Tim: Yes.
Chris: Right? So there's this place we've gone a bunch that it's hit my heart a lot in Guatemala. It's a little literal trash dump and people live there. They don't have any documentation. They don't exist. And if God, isn't in the process of making them whole, we've just got it wrong.
Emmoe: And I think we use, I know that's a thing in my personal walk, like in counseling, my counselor will sometimes say, "I think you were thinking of this word instead of that."
Chris: Right.
Emmoe: And I think sometimes when we talk about blessing, we're talking about provision and what provision could look like materialistically-
Tim: Right.
Emmoe: ... or whatever that means. Yeah. But if we think about it about being made whole, that could look like so many things and that's so much more than just physical. It's emotional, spiritual. but I think sometimes we're saying like, "Man, I'm so provided for," but then that means we've canceled out a group of people we think God's not providing for.
Chris: Yeah.
Tim: Emmoe and I laughed about this earlier this week that, and when one translation of the New Testament, the word blessed or blessing or blessed was referred to 112 times.
Chris: Oh wow.
Tim: And none of which connects blessing to material prosperity.
Chris: Yeah.
Emmoe: Yeah.
Tim: I mean, but it you're right, it's the words.
Emmoe: We use it that way.
Tim: We use it that way. It's just-
Chris: How do we do that?
Tim: Oh, I think you can interpret some of these scriptures-
Emmoe: Oh, man.
Tim: ... like that.
Emmoe: Yeah. And I think sometimes we say, "God is good. Look at how God is good. Look at like my limo, look at my," whatever it is.
Chris: Yeah.
Tim: We could all at the end of this podcast, feel like, man, we now know a cooler word in Hebrew and in Greek.
Emmoe: So real.
Tim: And it's like, now we really know what the word blessed means. But who gives a crap if it doesn't actually-
Chris: Change.
Tim: You know-
Emmoe: Yeah.
Tim: ... enter into the daily rhythms of my life, in your life. And so that's why this week we want to jump into this experiment and we're trying to figure out what the experiment is.
Chris: Right.
Tim: But that I am blessed in my stress. How am I being made whole this week? Is actually the question. It's more of an awareness thing that most of these practices and experiments are actually more about awareness than they are doing something.
Tim: And I think we all learned last week it's not about doing these things.
Emmoe: Exposed.
Tim: It's just, yeah, which is great. I mean, this is my deal and I did it. Right? But it's-
Chris: I want to be such a better person after season one.
Tim: But hopefully it's-
Emmoe: We're winning.
Tim: It's not it. It's that we will actually become more whole.
Chris: Yeah.
Tim: That's-
Chris: We'll be more blessed.
Tim: Truly. I mean, I think my hope by the end of this thing and as I've been doing these practices for years and I want to do them in community with people, which is way more fun, it just helps me process it. But I'm becoming more and more beautiful and dangerous and powerful because I think I'm more aware of Jesus.
Tim: And I'm more aware of him inside of me. And so the fruit that as in the spirit will start coming out of us instead of something we have to do.
Chris: Yeah.
Emmoe: Yeah.
Tim: So that's what gets me excited. So this week it's really that we are blessed in our stress. What's that look like? So specifically this week when we are stressed and worried, when I write the X on my wrist, I want us to go, "Okay, I'm stressed right now. I'm feeling it in my gut."
Emmoe: Yup.
Tim: You said you feel in the back of your neck.
Emmoe: Which I have been all week.
Tim: You have?
Chris: Wow.
Emmoe: Yes. Wild.
Tim: And Chris, my favorite line from you is-
Chris: What do I say?
Tim: ... when you're like, "I just feel it in my head." I'm like, "Where?" You're like, "Well, the whole thing."
Emmoe: The whole head.
Tim: That was a few podcasts ago, it made you so like-
Chris: Cool.
Emmoe: So good.
Tim: But this week in our stress, because we all have it. We all carry it in different ways. And then in the next three weeks we're going to be just trying to unpack this whole thing.
Chris: [crosstalk 01:00:45]. Okay. I love this.
Tim: But the next week, how am I being made whole, so in our stress, in our worry about things, in our anxieties, and I'm not saying this is going to cure anxiety, cure our worry-
Emmoe: Right.
Tim: ... all that stuff. This is not the point. It's just in those moments, what would it look like if God were actually real and actually at work in these things.
Chris: Right.
Tim: So even if you don't believe that in the moment because we can call BS on that. Right?
Chris: Yeah.
Tim: Yet let's just pretend as if he was at work. There are many people on this that are probably like, "I'm skeptical of even that."
Chris: Even that.
Tim: Which I love. And I'm so thankful that you're on this because we all are too, but let's just pretend as if he was, live as though he was at work in these things, what would it look like and how would he maybe be making us whole? How would we actually be blessed this week?
Chris: Right.
Tim: So if you guys want to jump into that with us, we will talk next week and just see how that went.
Emmoe: Sweet.
Chris: I'm excited.
Emmoe: All right.
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