024: Practice Fun
The Experiment is a weekly deep dive into the adventures and struggles of living out our daily lives WITH Jesus, not for Him.
Author and Podcast Host of That Sounds FunAnnie F. Downs shares what fun looks like in the midst of grief, what happens when we show up honestly and how having fun is practicing the presence of God.
This week’s Practice:
Practice Fun
+ 024 Practice Fun - Annie Downs Transcript
Tim: Hey everybody, Tim Timmons here with another 10,000 Minute Experiment. To my right, hot right I've got Chris Cleveland.
Chris: Hey guys.
Tim: We've got Emmoe Doniz across from me today.
Emmoe: Hello.
Tim: Then to our, my-
Chris: Everybody's-
Tim: Everybody's hot left, we've got Ms. Annie F. Downs.
Annie: Hi.
Tim: Okay, okay, okay, people. This is a great episode. This is with one of my heroes, Annie F. Downs. She is a great friend. I love who she is and what she does. If you don't listen to her podcast, you should. It's called That Sounds Fun. So check her out, she's also a great author. So there is so much to learn in this podcast. I just want to thank Denise, Lee, Lianne, and Max Anne, and so many other people that are just giving every month. This podcast is totally supported by you guys. So if this has been encouraging, thank you for that.
Tim: Also, I got a great encouragement from a woman named Joy. It just made me think, who can we be encouraging today? Just speaking courage into somebody? So just try it out today, it just works. So thank you, Joy. If you guys want to follow us on Facebook or the Instagrams, please do check us out. Also, if you want to get our free text messages, or learn more about what 10,000 Minutes is doing, just go to 10,000minutes.com, 1-0-0-0-0 Minutes.com. There are blogs up there, and different thing things that are hopefully encouraging. Okay people, get ready. Here we go.
Annie: What a treat.
Tim: What a treat indeed.
Annie: I'm so, I mean, I've never hung with them before. But this always works. So I believe in any friends you would bring.
Chris: So if it doesn't work, it's our fault.
Annie: Yeah, that's what I'm saying. This is a great Monday.
Tim: Everybody, we've got a guy named Craig in here. Craig, what's Craig do?
Annie: Engineer.
Tim: Craig is an engineer. We basically engineer our crap every time-
Emmoe: That's right, we don't have a Craig. You're lucky.
Tim: So Craig is like, "Hey, man, your 2K is off." He's super specific and awesome. He's going to tell us when we're done. That was a stupid bit. Erase that.
Annie: No, he doesn't do that, he doesn't edit content. He just makes sure all the content gets recorded.
Tim: We might need an editor. That's generally how we do it.
Annie: Have y'all screwed up one yet? Because that's why he's here is I've screwed up a very important conversation and didn't record both sides. I was like, never again. I know my weaknesses. They are legion. One of them is the recording part of a podcast. I can talk all day.
Tim: Yeah, no, you're really good at that.
Annie: It's the recording part that is not on me.
Tim: Well, Craig, if this thing blows up, you are [crosstalk 00:02:30]. It's totally your fault. So Craig is pretty good looking. I don't know how tall he is-
Chris: He looks like six four.
Tim: Totally, six four.
Annie: Oh my gosh, he's exactly six four.
Emmoe: Chris is good with these things, guys.
Chris: I have a really, I'm abnormally good at guessing people's heights.
Emmoe: Heights, and the prices of houses. You're really good at two things in life, man.
Chris: It's so true.
Annie: How are the three of y'all friends?
Chris: I don't even understand how.
Tim: We were all through Journey church in a little way. Then Chris and I, we are both artists.
Chris: Yeah.
Tim: We get to do this together.
Chris: We walk.
Annie: I was going to ask if y'all walk. You do.
Tim: So he's one of my walking partners.
Annie: I think about that all the time, Tim. I think about the people you go on walks with. I'm not kidding you, I bet every time I walk I think about it at some point.
Tim: Yeah. I mean, I did, I shared thar honor-
Annie: Yeah, when you were on my show a couple of months ago you talked about that. It has impacted me.
Tim: Yeah. You guys have been listening to this, you know that our walks are not like we're walking as Christian people.
Chris: They're serious, for my-
Tim: Yeah, the first time you came, he was in his hot, artist outfit. Like all decked out.
Emmoe: Hot artist outfit.
Annie: I mean, he did come bandana and bun, which his two points on artist bingo.
Chris: This is like I'm just carrying COVID over. You know what I mean? It's really just laziness-
Emmoe: Not actual COVID, just to be clear to people.
Chris: Yeah, not actual. Just the style. Also, I wore this yesterday, and I had an outdoor show, and it was abnormally hot. So if I lift this bandana right now, I've got a nasty sunburn-
Emmoe: Were you in town or were you out of town?
Chris: It was like a couple hours away. It was a whole thing. So now I've got this white streak, like right here. I've been really good about not doing that all summer. It hit me yesterday.
Emmoe: Yeah, you nailed it.
Tim: You let it down. You let your guard down.
Emmoe: No one is perfect, it's okay, Chris.
Tim: It's so true.
Emmoe: Oh no, not again.
Tim: So just so you know, on one of our episodes, my mom, we had my mom on. It was so good. It was grief, it's one of our highest actually rated. I think Emmoe asked her, what would you ... No, you said, Chris said something like-
Chris: It was some advice for Tim that you haven't told him yet.
Tim: She basically said, "I wish he would keep his hair."
Annie: Like that's your choice?
Tim: Yeah.
Emmoe: It changes every time.
Annie: I wish you would keep your hair?
Tim: What would she say?
Chris: Let what hair you have grow.
Annie: Okay, that's an invitation. You made it an expectation you were failing.
Emmoe: Let what hair you have grow.
Annie: Why does she want that?
Tim: You know why? It sounds fun. That's going to be my transition.
Annie: Okay, ready. We'll just let it be. This isn't my show.
Tim: Everybody, we're in Annie F. Downs, and F stands for forgiven.
Annie: Oh, thank you.
Emmoe: Oh, wow.
Tim: Annie Forgiven Downs.
Annie: I wish that was true. I normally say fancy, like Reba. I might have been born just plain white trash, but fancy was my name. So that's what I usually say.
Tim: Just so we all know, my first podcast I ever did, that never came out, god bless Neil Diamond, was with Annie F. Downs.
Annie: When I came to your-
Tim: You came to our house.
Annie: Yes, you never released any of those.
Tim: For things we don't need to talk about here.
Annie: Okay, okay. Did I do something wrong?
Tim: You did. You did. You said some inappropriate.
Emmoe: That's why F for forgiven.
Annie: Right, you ruined my first entire podcast show.
Tim: So we talked for a good hour about just fancy and all the F words we could come up with.
Annie: Oh, no, not that part.
Tim: Friendship.
Annie: I remember I was dating someone, and I was heartbroken, and scared, and excited, and all the things. You were such a gift in that. You were like, "Just let me encourage you about being a human." I mean, I remember exactly where I was sitting. It was really important to me.
Tim: It was a good one. It was a good one.
Annie: Thank you.
Tim: So we'll substitute most of this with some of that content.
Annie: Yeah, good idea.
Tim: Well, Annie F. Downs, That Sounds Fun is your whole world, right?
Annie: Yeah.
Tim: So we're in a room right now that actually has your whole [crosstalk 00:06:25].
Annie: Yeah, this is the studio.
Tim: You've been doing tours with all this stuff, and then we just had a hard, not so fun conversation.
Annie: Yeah, about canceling, or postponing it truthfully. But just canceling it for the month of October and moving it to spring of '22.
Tim: Okay. So we're going to go there.
Annie: I'll probably cry.
Tim: Does that sound fun?
Annie: It's very fresh.
Tim: Because just for fun, we're both similar on the Enneagram side of things. Which if you guys don't know what that is, you're doing great. It's just how we might see the world.
Annie: Yeah.
Tim: A lens that we might look through the world. People would always see us and go, "Oh, you just think everything is fun." There is so many assumptions that come when you are a seven on the Enneagram. But your whole world is about inviting people into fun. So how does this all pan out into fun? When you're canceling something that you've been so excited about, you're killing it, and then all of a sudden this.
Annie: Yeah. I mean, it just ... As I said to you before we started, one of the choices I had to make in my seven-ness, which is not my natural thing, is I didn't immediately solve it. I didn't immediately go, but you know what? Here is what I can do. To our team, we said, we have this internal conversation we have al to here at work when something goes sideways, we say, what does this make possible? It doesn't always make it feel better. But it is the question we get to roll around in our heads is what does this make possible? It happened because when I was getting ready to write a book, I was ready to write the book. Was getting the book deal, was in meetings, and a book released with the title, and was very similar to what I was going to write.
Tim: That sounds totally fun.
Annie: It really was shockingly close. I panicked. I said, "Well, there goes my career." My agent said, "If someone else just wrote your book, what does that make possible for you?" I thought, that is the right question. I just kept that. So while I have not asked myself to feel better ... A version of Annie in my younger, hopefully less mature years, would have-
Tim: Teens, because you're 24, now, right?
Annie: My gosh, I would not trade to be 24. I am 41 with joy. I have done my 20s, I did my time. I did my time. I lived every day of that, thank God.
Tim: So 16 year old, younger, 20 year old.
Annie: That Annie would have required, I cannot feel this pain, get me out of this. So let's talk about what could be good, and let's book a trip, and let's plan something else. So I've been in my grief, I've been so proud of myself, because I just haven't forced this to be over. Because I think when I'm learning ... Sorry. I think what I'm learning is when you grieve something it means you value it. I think I thought I valued things, but I was so willing to get over them. I'm doing that differently. I think it also says in scripture that when you mourn you'll be comforted. I have not been good at letting myself do the first part of that. I've hurried from the tragedy to the comfort. So is has not been fun. It is not fun to take away 11 people's jobs.
Tim: Right, right.
Annie: That were going to tour with you, and add work to the promoter who I care about as people, as well as the partner that I'm grateful for. What we believe is obedience is hurting people. That is really hard for me. We will look back ... Yes, I know. I'm at my own table, and I haven't got my own tissue. Thank you. We will look back, as with most things, and we will go, this is why this made sense to some degree. I don't think everything always makes sense. But this, when we tour in the spring, we'll go, "Ah, yes, of course." People feel safer.
Annie: I mean, so much of it is a COVID decision. It is where we're going and how people where we are going feel about COVID and how it is effecting ... Then there were all these weird closed doors. Y'all know how that goes, where my management team was doing such a great job of just sorting it out, and then all of a sudden, they're like, "We need to tell you these three things that aren't working." I was like, what? Well, are we supposed to do this? God has closed every door. We can't do this. We have to obey that. But it makes me sad that it has made people unemployed, including me.
Tim: Is that your-
Annie: I care so much more about your character than your career. So I want him to always care more about my character than my career. I just don't always care more about my character than my career. So it has been a hard week. But-
Tim: Sorry.
Annie: It is right, and good, and we think it's right and good. What if we're wrong? Okay, we did the best decision we knew how to make with the information that we had. With who I think God is, and how I experience him. So we will be all right.
Tim: Thank you.
Annie: Sorry I cried. Do people cry a lot on this?
Tim: Yeah, we're doing great.
Annie: I've only heard a couple of episodes where people cry.
Chris: [crosstalk 00:11:29]. Mainly Tim.
Annie: The couple of episodes I've listened to have not been teary in the first four and a half.
Tim: No, we're doing great. It's one of the things I love so much about you, Annie. You are, it's why everybody loves listening to you. It's because you are you, and you're willing to listen to and work on your crap, and yet open yourself up to other people. You're so beautiful. So I love that about you. I've always loved that about you.
Annie: Thank you.
Tim: Well done. Thank you for bringing that here, and being that person. So one of the things that I wanted to lean into was actually this kind of idea of, That Sounds Fun, which most people go, "Oh, that's so great for her, because she's just happy."
Annie: Yeah, it's just easy for her.
Tim: So I love that we even went here this early, because I'm trying to think through and help people figure out, how do I live, or we're in a series right now in practicing the presence of God. So I wanted to jump into how do we practice the presence of God in fun? What's that look like? We're talking, Emmoe and I were talking earlier that that's not a normal word that we use for presence of God.
Annie: Yeah.
Tim: So I wanted to get into that. But also, how does the presence of God, how is this fun in the midst of crap?
Annie: Yeah. I mean, that is our challenge, right? That's what that [inaudible 00:12:41] theological movie, Inside Out, taught us, is that actually joy and sadness need to coexist. Right? We will actually be, we are actually more human when you let both exist. I experience that, I think that's really true. Whereas I didn't always believe that. I do now. I do think, I mean, practicing the presence of God is one of my favorite phrases to hear someone say, because I just, I saw a parent say this on Instagram today. She said, "The number one thing I teach my kids is Jesus, because he's the only thing that won't change." Everything else is going to go away except him.
Annie: So practicing the presence of God, I just have, I immediately picture myself in the room where I read and pray in the mornings, and just think, man, even this morning, I sat there and had to be like, how do we do this? How do we do this? How do we do this well? Yet, I find God to be incredibly fun. I was teaching, I'm part of the teaching team at Cross Point Church here. I had fasted the week leading up to teaching. So I was hungry by the time I'm teaching on Sunday. We teach three times, and then I ate dinner. So I hadn't eaten for some days. God's friendship, and his humor, I'm like getting up and teaching, and it's thundering outside. I say at the beginning, "Hey, every time it thunders, it means God agrees with me." Like, ah ha ha, everybody laughs.
Annie: In my head, I'm thinking, "It's almost dinnertime." Because it's the 5:30 service. I'm thinking, there is no discipline that I better experience the presence of God than through fasting. I do not, I will preach fasting from start to finish, back to front. There is nothing ... Part of that is also what I tend to lead towards in a diction, and mishandling is probably food the most. So fasting is really cutting at the core of my go-to things. Yeah. So that's probably why it's such an intense practicing the presence of God for me. So I'm up there, and I say, "It's thundering every time God agrees with me."
Annie: I'm doing this part at the very top of the talk, where I'm like, "Well, if anybody, that they could have picked for the teaching team to bring this topic today, it's me, because how is more dramatic than me?" It thunders. You could not believe. I died laughing. I almost burst into tears, because I thought, he is so funny. He wants me to enjoy him. This is God saying, "Thanks for fasting this week before you taught. Let me do this one hilarious thing that you will know is me, that no one could have made that up." So he does fun stuff like that all the time, I think. I think for all the serious Easter eggs we look for, and all the, okay, did that line up with that? Did that line up with that? No, that's the decision I'm supposed to ... Talking about the doors closing for tour for October, that's not fun to see all those things align. But it was right. Yet, when I also experience him to do fun things like that too.
Chris: Right. You think that's part of just awakening to the presence more? Like not just ... You have to practice that. So part of the fasting is opening yourself up in this serious way to be able to experience the more fun pieces.
Annie: Yes.
Chris: So now you're seeing God in all of these places, instead of just these really rigid places that you've seen before. I love that. Because we do, we look for God in all of these righteous places, or whatever things that we expect him to be.
Annie: When you have a hard decision to make, or when you have something big to do. You look for him in ... Well, the clock said 6:15, and Romans 6:15 has always meant a lot to me. I am about that life.
Chris: I was like the kid that would flip through the Bible and be like, "Oh, what does this say for my life right this second?"
Annie: Thank God for God, because he will show up and meet you in that, right?
Chris: Sure.
Annie: I love all that stuff. But I also think, I said to, Bethany Dillon was on the podcast, Bethany Bernar. We were talking about how we both at some point in the last year have said to God, "I hate how you're handling this. I actually hate how you're handling this. I don't hate you, but I hate how you're handling this." In that, I told her, I was like, "I've never said ..." I've been a Christian for 41, I got saved when I was five, and I meant it. So 36 years. I have never said that to him. I have always been afraid to say that to him. What ended up happening that y'all probably already know, what ended up happening is I felt closer to him after we wrestled that down than I did before.
Emmoe: Yeah.
Annie: So then you go ... To your thing, Chris, what I'm sensing from God in my own experience this year is that the more I will show up to him honestly, the better friends we are. So then when he thunders in the middle of my talk about being a dramatic person, I go like, "You get me. I get you [inaudible 00:17:47]." But do you know what I mean? We're like same, same. We're on the same page.
Chris: I love the shift in perspective that you have, even talking about tour and all these kind of things. It's not ... It is somethinG lost and you're okay sitting in that, which none of us do very well. But also there is a flip of perspective about opportunity. That was one of the things I had to learn at the top of COVID, when we lost all of our shows, and everything went away. There had been years of work to get to that point. But it was like a week of, "Oh my God, what in the world is going on?" Then I think it was like during Lent at the time, and one of my friends said, "Hey, in Lent we give something up, but it's not about what we give. It's about what we replace it with." Right? So what can you replace with this? So it feels like this Lent in practice that you're taking into all of your life, which is really powerful. Which makes you have the ability to have fun in the moment that aren't.
Annie: Yeah. Yeah. I think that's really profoundly true.
Tim: Trying to figure out what to fill this empty space in these next month, or whatever, the next weeks.
Annie: Yeah, next month. Yeah. There was a wedding I had said no to that I wasn't going to be at. So as soon as I announced, someone said, "Well, do you want to come teach to this? Are you going to get to come to the wedding?" I was like, "I need 18 more minutes before I even think about all of a sudden I'm not going to be in Albuquerque." I wasn't going to be in ... All of a sudden I'm not going to be doing all these things. So therefore, give me a minute. But yeah, that is a fun thing. I haven't even done it yet, honestly, Tim. I mean, we're recording this on Monday morning. I haven't gone there yet. We came right into staff meeting, and then I came into a podcast.
Tim: So that was today?
Annie: No, it was Thursday. But we weren't in the office together Friday. So this is our first time all being together. So I will do that tomorrow, I think. I think that's what's in my head. What I've kind of said is, on Tuesday, you can start thinking about what this means for you. So it'll be one of those things. I like to picture that when we get to Heaven, there will be a lot of charts we can look at.
Tim: That sounds like hell.
Annie: No, listen it will be charts like-
Emmoe: I'm getting excited.
Annie: Yeah, right? Are you ready? It'll be charts like if you wouldn't have made that record, here is where the world wouldn't have gotten. But because you-
Chris: So choose your own adventure?
Annie: Yes. Because y'all make this show, here is the chart of if you had never made this show of impact. Here is the chart because you did.
Chris: Wow.
Annie: I just think we're going to get to see charts like that. What I want to see after this tour postponing, is I want to see a chart that tracks every person's life that was going to be at a show, whether it's a person in the audience, or our live podcast guest, or my crew. Just go, "This is the trajectory that changed, even if it's just 2%, because they had October back, and they thought they weren't going to have October." So I'm banking on that chart.
Chris: On the bright side, October is like the best month in that show.
Annie: I haven't been home in October. Have y'all ever been home in October?
Chris: I know.
Tim: Yes.
Chris: I am some, this year.
Annie: Oh yeah, last year, actually, we were home in October last year.
Chris: I wasn't.
Emmoe: Oh, you weren't?
Chris: I did these drive-in outdoor ... I worked harder than I've ever worked in my life.
Annie: Oh last fall y'all went hard.
Chris: It was crazy. I've never been home, and I'm going to be home this month.
Annie: I've never seen an October-
Chris: Like I get seconds of it, we have, like last weekend, I'm like, "Oh, this is beautiful. I need to say. Oh, no, I guess not."
Annie: Yeah.
Chris: So hey, maybe you get to breath some fresh air and be good.
Annie: There is something. There are things that are acorns that could not have become oaks. So I'm just banking on seeing some acorns grow over the next couple of weeks.
Chris: That's a bumper sticker.
Tim: Totally. Speaking of acorns should be the bumper sticker. That was just the best segue I could possibly do there. Annie, you have an awful lot of people in this room that come in this room, I've been one of those people.
Annie: Yeah.
Tim: But I am very curious, whenever I talk to a therapist, or somebody who deals with a lot of people all the time, I remember I talked to my doctor, I say, "Hey, what do you learn about people?" My oncologist, she said, "A lot of people pray in here. But not many people surrender." That's what she said. It was like, oh my gosh. I took my phone out, and I was just taking notes. But I love asking people what they learn about people. Because you are having so many conversations with so many people right now, on every level of everything. What do you learn about people?
Annie: I mean, I think the number one thing we see in here, when we're recoding podcasts is just about everyone is showing up because they have a thing to talk about. Most of them are not used to being listened to by the person interviewing. They're used to be being questioned, and then next question, and then next question. You've experienced that. I've experienced that, where you go like, you didn't hear the thing I said. You just had the next question you had in line. I think, like I said, I have a lot of major flaws.
Annie: One of my giftings that God put in me is I think people are really interesting. I'm very curious as a person. It is taking all my self control not to turn this on the three of y'all, which I already did. How do y'all know each other? I just am so curious. So I think people want to be seen, is kind of the number one thing. If you just see the person in the room with you, that goes a long way. But yeah, that's my biggest takeaway, I think. That is the only thing that's coming to my mind is I love when I can tell people ... They'll say things like, "You're great at this." I'll think, I didn't ask you a single question someone hasn't asked you before. I am not going to get a peabody. I am not a great, I'm not Barbara Walters. You just feel like I care.
Chris: Yeah.
Emmoe: Right.
Annie: You're not used to being interviewed by people who care. So they think they're having this experience. But Craig and I know, because he's in here for all of them too, is they just feel cared for, and that I'm their friend. No one, no peabody is calling me for that. Which is fine, I don't need that. I like that these people come in, and sit down, and leave, and our hope is that it's as big a gift to our guests as it is to our audience. These conversations, what y'all make, is such a gift to the audience. My hope is always that the guest feels that too.
Tim: That they would have had a fun experience.
Annie: Yeah, totally. That it was fun for them, that it wasn't hard. That I didn't push into an area that ... When someone is in here, and there is a real public breakup of their band.
Tim: Didn't make them cry-
Annie: Yeah, yeah.
Tim: In the first five minutes?
Annie: Not that. I will do that.
Chris: Just on page six. [crosstalk 00:24:28].
Annie: But someone will get divorced, or their band will break up. They come in here, and they're going, "Well, my PR person is making me do this. But I don't know this girl. Is the first question going to be about my divorce?" Then we don't do that. Unless they say we can. I think that kind of stuff, when people feel like they have a good experience, that matters a lot to me.
Chris: It's like a song, right? It's a quick, when we get together to write songs. What you're talking about to me is like, man, how can I practice that? How can I be the one that's really listening to people? It's the same in a song. Can I listen to you and find the song in it? Can I listen to you and find the story, or whatever, how can we do that every day?
Annie: I think about that, I think one of ... This is not a mask, pro or anti statement. We have lost our ability to read people's faces when people wear masks. So in the grocery store, I try really hard to make eye contact. Also, I'm extroverted times 1,000. So I'm like missing out on nine new friends every time I go to the grocery store, because we have masks on. So I am just aware, and the places we don't have to wear a mask, the places we do choose to wear a mask or have to wear a mask, that we're getting this opportunity to do that same thing of really see people. Because for a year, either we were in our homes, or we were so covered we couldn't. So I'm thankful for that. It is a practice I try to do.
Tim: What other practices do you put in your life? What other practices do you have in your life?
Annie: I read the Bible every day. I really, I have not done that forever. I have probably done that for a decade, maybe. I am very ... I say every day. There are days I sleep in, there are days I have somewhere to be in the morning.
Tim: Okay, we're going to cut. Craig, can we cut-
Annie: Yeah, she lied. She lied. She absolutely lied. That is a practice that to me is the only, it is the only thing I can tie to. It is the only mask that I will tie to is that this ship is going to rock back and forth, things are going to go sideways. But then yesterday, I'm here, just with the lord, sitting with the lord and going, how do I emotionally survive this tour postponing and lead my team? And lead the people, and respond to the people who have feelings, and all the things? It is only because scripture reminds me that God prunes the stuff that is producing fruit. He doesn't prune the stuff that isn't good. He prunes what produces fruit. Then I go, oh, we have hope. Okay, we have hope. We have hope. So then the only way I can bring hope into a situation is if I first found hope, right? So that's a practice, is I really believe in that.
Tim: Was there a time before that that was just the rote thing to do? I think we all grew up with this idea of-
Annie: Yeah, of course, like a quiet time.
Tim: Read your Bible, and do all that stuff. So how is this, because somebody hears that right away, and they don't know you. When I hear that from you, I'm like, "Ooh, that, I love that." I respect that in you. Yet, early, young Annie, I may not have respected when you said, "Yeah, I do my quiet time everyday." Which, is wonderful.
Annie: I definitely don't call it quiet time, because what do I do that's quiet? My quiet time is when I'm asleep. That's my quiet time.
Tim: Maybe.
Annie: Maybe. I don't know. No one is there. We can talk about that later. So we have this thing in Christianity ... Yeah, I'm just going to do this.
Chris: Let's go.
Annie: We have this thing in Christianity where we feel like we have to make everything easy for everybody else for them to do it. I just want to be like, hey, you actually just need to read your Bible every day. It isn't always fun. But if you want to be the person you want to be, you're going to have to do disciplines you don't like, and that don't always feel good. That feel like, how could I ever do that? I don't know.
Tim: Hence the word discipline.
Annie: Yeah. Just like start doing it. So part of me wants to push back even on the timid person saying, "I could never do that." I'm like, yeah, actually, you could. I bet you check Twitter everyday. I could do that awful thing. I hate when people do that to me. Is it [inaudible 00:28:29] that says something like when we get to Heaven and look at how much time we spend online, we'll realize that it wasn't that we didn't have time to pray or something horrifying like that, that just ruins my life.
Chris: I hope there is no ticker tape-
Annie: No, no, I've already got one on my phone, and it ruins my life.
Chris: Every Sunday. Oh my ... I feel seen. Ugh.
Annie: I know.
Chris: I won't even tell people how much it is.
Annie: It's so bad.
Emmoe: I abhor mine.
Annie: It's so bad. So part of me just says we just need to read our Bibles. But the other part, the version of me that didn't make a discipline of this, I think the reason it has become a needed discipline is I have seen strength come from it that I did not have before. I have weathered things better, and I would trace it back to being more consistent in the word. So I would just say to people, try, read every day for a month. If you're not stronger at the end, don't do it anymore. I'm not the boss of you.
Annie: But if you read three chapters of the gospels every day, you read the whole gospels in a month. So Matthew one through three, Matthew four through six, if you do three a day, you're done in a month, with Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. So do that for a month. If it hasn't improved your life, don't do it anymore. I don't care. It's a money back guarantee. I'll give you back everything you paid me for that piece of advice. I don't care. So for me, Tim, it has been significantly important to me. There are other things that people have said on y'all's show when you ask that that I don't think of, and don't make time for.
Tim: Yeah, there have been a lot of better answers-
Annie: Yeah, that's right. You're right, you're right.
Tim: That was ... I'm totally kidding.
Annie: Does this sound too ... I don't want it to sound [inaudible 00:30:10]. But I also am tired of us acting like every time something feels hard it's legalistic. It's just hard.
Tim: I guess that's why, I know you, so I see that. We hear that in our culture, and it's like, our church culture goes, no, hell no, I'm out of that.
Annie: Right, right.
Tim: But knowing you, there is great credibility there. But even that challenge, it's like, well, if this works, great. If not, great. But why not try?
Annie: That's what every gym says to you. That's what every diet says to you. Here, we're going to give you four weeks free at Planet Fitness. If you come every day, and your body isn't different, don't come back. Every discipline that people try to convince us will make us healthier, gives us a trial run. Because they are so sure that it will actually change your life. I think the same.
Tim: So you talk to a lot of people, all the time, about fun. What are people's biggest pushbacks?
Annie: When we are asking them, what sounds fun to you? Asking what is fun to you, there is a couple of things that happen. It's really interesting, because the first thing that usually happens is people shame their own fun. Well, you might not think this is fun, or I don't know if you are going to think. No one is probably going to care about this answer. Everybody shames their own fun, because when we were in elementary school, on the playground, there was the cool thing to do, and then there was everything else. We are still kids on the playground all the time. So people shame their own fun a lot, which is fascinating.
Annie: So I usually get to stop and go, "Hey, you don't have to shame your fun here. If it's fun to you, it's fun to me. Fine. Whatever you think is fun is probably fun. If it's not injuring anybody, or hurting our planet, game on." So that is an interesting thing that happens. The barriers people express when they say to me, "I don't have fun. I don't know how to make time for fun," is a lot of it.
Tim: Because they feel, what, guilt? Is it-
Annie: Yeah, because fun doesn't pay the bills, and fun doesn't raise your kids, and fun isn't making time to read your Bible, and fun ... Our days are already pretty full. If someone is listening to this podcast, they're not doing it sitting at the table doing nothing else.
Tim: Right.
Chris: That's right.
Annie: Podcasts are exploding globally because they can be multi tasked. Not a lot of things can be, right? So we can't read books while we're doing anything else. We can listen while we're doing something else. So I think that is part of it is a time crunch thing people have. But again, you make space in your life for every single thing that you believe makes you healthier, or happier. Because Oreos may not make you healthier, but you think they make you happier, you make space for them. The gym, your spiritual disciplines, you're going to your therapist. I make space to see my counselor because I genuinely believe it has made me healthier over the last seven or eight years.
Annie: I think fun actually is that too. I think having fun, choosing fun, making space for fun, even if it's just a 30 minute block on your calendar once aw eek, that you just write fun. Then what ends up happening is all week long, whoever your people are, your family, your friends, you're going, "What are we going to do from two to 2:30 on Saturday? What is fun?" Then all of a sudden you're having this conversation around the table of, "Well, if we had 30 minutes, what would you do?" Then someone, all of a sudden, you're getting these ... What does scripture say but that eternity is built into our hearts. We long all the time for a place we haven't been yet and a place we already miss. Right?
Annie: What fun actually ... Here is the other thing. When you dig down into someone's fun ... Do this, put 30 minutes on your calendar, sit around the table, say, "Saturday, we're going to do 30 minutes of fun." The kids have to answer, you have to answer, your spouse has to answer, your friends, if it's with your crew-
Tim: Nervous.
Annie: Then you say, they say, "What sounds fun to you?" "Riding my bike." "Why?" "I just love riding my bike." "Why?" Every answer will go down to two reasons. When you pin it all the way down, it is something that happened in your childhood, something you love about childhood, or something with your grandparents. Every answer goes to your childhood or your grandparents. Why that's fascinating is what is in our hearts that we long for is simplicity. We long for innocence. That is eternity set in our hearts. So what fun actually does, when you let it do its thing, is it reminds you of eternity.
Annie: So we don't think that. We think fun is just going to take up time and we think it's fun. But when I go to a baseball game, when I go to a National Sounds game, and get a hotdog, and I'm sitting with my pals, and we're cheering, it's so fun. It's fun because I'm with people, and being with people reminds me about community, and who God is, and what it's like for him to be near. I grew up going to baseball games with my dad. So it's like a family thing. Games are fun, and we're outside, and there is something about nature that all the time people, five out of six times, will say something outside when you say, "What sounds fun to you?" Especially if you're asking in the spring/summer. So it is a fascinating answer.
Tim: I love that, even as a practice, just with friends.
Annie: Yes. Yes. Because if you will do three whys after you ask them what sounds fun to you, you will get to their childhood or to their grandparents. It is bananas.
Tim: Okay. So take a second, what sounds fun to you? Why does that sound fun? What does that bring you back to? Do you make space for this thing? What would it look like to do this in the presence of God as you join Jesus as you're doing this thing? Maybe this week, let's consider asking some people around us, our friends, family, coworkers, let's just be curious about others. What sounds fun to them?
Annie: It's bananas how impactful grandparents are, when they're good.
Tim: Do you find that with parents as well?
Annie: No.
Tim: Is that ... Okay, so that's ... Interesting.
Annie: Never. I can't, Craig might call me a liar here. But I can't think of a time where someone has talked about their parents. I don't think it has ever boiled down to parents. It has always boiled down to childhood, so your parents are involved in that. But it has always boiled down to childhood or, not siblings, not cousins, it is grandparents.
Chris: Literally happened to me today. We were on the phone before we came, and I was like, I just went and looked at this land. I was with my wife. I was like, I don't know why ... I think it's because of my grandpa. It took me all the way back there. I was like, I just want to connect with him. He had farms, and he worked his land. It simply came down to that. So I'm with you.
Annie: Isn't that fascinating?
Chris: It's crazy.
Annie: It makes me ask a lot of questions to God about it. I mean, what is it about grandparents? It's so beautiful. So not everybody had a great grandparent experience. It's not 24/7 good grandparent life. Right? But the ones who did, have a real profound connection to it. It is wild.
Chris: I know when Kenzie and I both lost, I lost my grandpa and she lost her grandma, which were in the same year, the biggest people in our lives. That hit us harder, I think, than anything ever did in our lives. So it is kind of crazy the impact that they have.
Annie: Because losing a grandparent, if you have a good connection, which it sounds like y'all did, is a loss of innocence. Something happens when that generation leaves your family, where suddenly you're number two in line, not number three. So it also is this shift into adulthood that does not feel comfortable. We leave something of childhood when that happens. Our hearts long for eternity. They long for the simplicity that we know will exist again.
Chris: Yeah, I feel like I've been on a journey of finding that simplicity sinc then, honestly. I think a lot of these practices that we do, finding the presence of God, like figuring out, finding fun is that process of when we're forced into real life, and we've lost that innocence. How do we circle back around and find it?
Annie: That's the thing is it's never going to totally satisfy. Because it is never going to fill you all the way.
Tim: What's not going to fill?
Annie: The finding. So even if he buys that land. He buys that land, and then it's kind of like, "Oh, I thought." But it's not all the way there.
Tim: So true.
Annie: So I can make my grandmother's recipes, but it's not like cooking with her.
Chris: Yeah.
Annie: But we can make the recipe. So you can get these glimpses, and these tastes, and so we have to remove the pressure on our fun to ... This is, I heard John Elders talking about this on his podcast about how we spent all summer trying to be full of fun and excitement, because we're out of the pandemic, and look, and look. Then we got to the fall, and we aren't okay. You're like, "Wait, I thought." It's because nothing ever satisfies the thing. Nothing ever satisfies the thing. We eat lunch, and we want dinner. We are a people that want.
Annie: But there is such beauty in finding the land, and going, "This gives me a taste of that thing I missed. God, fill the rest. Make a way." Also, I'm going to be human, and I'm always going to ... Married people at this table, the two of us, would say to you, "I bet when I get married, dot, dot, dot." We will always long. We will never be all the way satisfied. So you go, "Oh, at least I know. Poor guy that I would have married at 24 versus the guy I'll marry now," who I'm like, man, the guy at 24 thought ... I thought he was going to meet all the needs. This guy, I know I'm still going to long. I know it's still going to be pieces that are empty. But man, what a glimpse he will be of the good.
Tim: It's putting things in the right perspective, right? It's giving it its own ... It's like that land, let's say, or this guy. It's giving them their place in life, or those things. But it's not giving them-
Chris: The place.
Tim: The place. The cliché-
Chris: I mean, that was huge in our marriage when we had to figure that. There is so many angles I can take on this, I feel like, because you're right on in relationships. To me, this is the kingdom, right? So-
Annie: This is practicing the presence of God, right?
Chris: Connected all together, and that's the design. So it's, the kingdom is here and not yet. So we get glimpses of it, but we're still never fully satisfied. But we can still lean into it, we can still find it. We can still find the presence of God, we can still bring Heaven to earth in all of these little fun moments together.
Annie: Yes. It's the don't let go of what you have found. Buy the land if you want the land, right? Don't let go of the thing you found. But also, don't expect it to be the thing. It is back to Inside Out. It is holding joy and sadness.
Tim: A healthy balance, yeah.
Annie: Yeah. Believe the thing, the fun that is telling you about God, and telling you about yourself, and telling you about your life. Believe it. It is fun, and it's wonderful. Also, believe the little piece of sadness that is there, that says, "Oh, this didn't fill me all the way up. It didn't fill me all the way up. I thought for sure it was going to ... I thought I had found the thing."
Tim: So good.
Annie: Then you go, okay, good, both are true. This is the not yet and the kingdom is here.
Chris: The church hasn't done a good job of saying both are true. We've done, we've said, "Oh, this is the thing. Take this, and you'll be good. Don't worry about the rest. Oh, maybe just do this a little harder." Just go a little harder. So what I love about what you're saying is, no, no, no. It's permission. It's what we talked about in grief and all the other things. It's permission to do it all, and to feel it all, and to live it all, and to find God in all the places.
Emmoe: It's also rethinking what a full life really is. Because we value producing and we value work. We value showcasing something. But kind of like [inaudible 00:42:14], rethinking rest. It's a need, it's a craving to have fun. It's not like trying to create the perfect day, and I had 30 minutes of fun. It's like I will always crave fun, so I can either neglect it, and then miss a piece of God's character, or try to always seek it out.
Annie: Yes, that's exactly right. [inaudible 00:42:35], man. He's brilliant.
Tim: Yeah, whatever on him.
Annie: True.
Tim: Speaking of acorns.
Annie: I liked it, that was-
Emmoe: That one was better, that one was better. [crosstalk 00:42:46].
Tim: Annie, thank you.
Annie: I said you're fine.
Tim: Did you say find or fun?
Chris: Fun.
Tim: [crosstalk 00:42:52].
Chris: I found you.
Tim: Okay, so girl, we are going to do a quick 10,000 thoughts.
Annie: Ooh, yay, let's go.
Tim: Yeah. This is speed round.
Annie: I will, I believe you.
Tim: Don't you dare try and think through this crap.
Annie: Nope. Okay.
Tim: This sounds fun. You ready?
Annie: Yes, sir.
Tim: I'm just going to say something.
Annie: Okay, and I'm just supposed to say the first thing that comes to mind?
Tim: Acorns.
Annie: Oaks, they're coming.
Tim: Oaks. Okay, nickname.
Annie: My dad, well, most people call me Annie F. A lot of people call me F. My dad calls me Fosse, like the old dancer. Yeah.
Tim: I don't know about that, this Fosse.
Chris: I'm googling that later.
Annie: Yeah. F-O-S-S-E.
Tim: Yeah. I dated her for a little bit, but I remember she was never like ... Is she 800 years old.
Annie: Yeah. The best part, it's a guy, actually. He's a choreographer.
Tim: [crosstalk 00:43:44].
Annie: Plot twist. Because my actual name is Annie, I don't get a lot of nicknames.
Tim: Gosh, I'm-
Annie: We can cut all of that.
Chris: No, we're keeping all of it.
Tim: Okay, bucket list.
Annie: What do I ... I really want to see Greece. I want to get married, that's on my bucket list of things I'd like to do. I would love to get married. I would love to go to Greece, maybe.
Chris: Knock them both out.
Annie: Yeah, it's very Mama Mia to me.
Tim: Hold on, go to Greece or see Grease? I was thinking it as the-
Annie: The musical?
Tim: I was like, girl, we can-
Annie: Annie, that's a movie. Just go get it from the Blockbuster. No, go to the country.
Tim: Okay. Blockbuster. I was thinking of a whole Grease wedding, like the songs.
Annie: Oh my gosh. We go together.
Tim: Totally. I think I did ... Oh my gosh. So when I was in high school, all the cheerleaders, I was a little freshman. The senior cheerleaders had some of us guys ... Oh, gosh, this is so inappropriate now that I think back on it. But there was a-
Annie: The times were different in the '60s.
Tim: So different. One of those things where it was a talent show, but it was like lipsynching. It was a lipsynch. They did the reproduction song.
Annie: Wow. You were in it?
Tim: I was in it. I was like, who knows what I was doing in that. When I look back, I go, what? How does-
Annie: I wish, if anyone can find that VHS. [crosstalk 00:45:05].
Tim: The bass, and then a few of us dorky freshmen get ... Hi, Tim Timmons here, pet peeve?
Annie: When people are late. It's just hard. Just be on time. It's just hard. But also, there are times where I end up somewhere late too. But that's kind of a pet peeve.
Tim: I love that. Thank you, noted, everybody.
Annie: Y'all were early.
Tim: Yeah, we did what we could, because we knew that already.
Annie: Oh my gosh, you were like-
Tim: Do you have a joke? Can you tell a joke?
Annie: Oh, yeah. What did the zero say to the eight?
Tim: You're zeight?
Annie: Nice belt.
Tim: That's funny.
Annie: I like that one a lot.
Tim: That's funny. I don't think I get it yet.
Annie: So, look at a zero, and look at an eight. It looks like a zero with a belt on. It's very good. Chris does not. He can't even look me in the eye anymore.
Chris: I'm trying to laugh.
Annie: No, you don't have to. I didn't tell a joke, I did it for myself. I love that joke.
Tim: I just love that you know a joke.
Annie: Oh, yeah.
Chris: I'm glad you went there, I'm glad you went there.
Tim: Biggest regret? I just said regwet just so everybody knows.
Emmoe: That one is yours. We know yours.
Annie: Oh gosh, I don't know that I have one. I don't know that that ... To stay on theme of what we're talking about, there are spiritual disciplines I regret not putting into my life on a daily basis sooner. So what that even tells me is I'm saying that, what can I do now so I don't say that in five years? I wish, there is ways I wish I would have been more disciplined earlier.
Tim: Yeah. Current three top songs?
Annie: Oh, okay.
Tim: Doesn't have to be top current, it can just be top songs.
Chris: Doesn't have to be tunes.
Annie: Yeah, has to be all songs. Let me, can I open my playlist. Oh my gosh, always.
Tim: Oh, I love to sing your breezes. I'm making some time-
Emmoe: We're going to get striked.
Annie: Okay. Let me look at this guy's other name.
Tim: Tom Tommins?
Annie: Well, that's very funny. There is a song called Catch Me Singing. Have y'all listened to this yet? From the Worship Initiative. The whole idea is when the season shifts, I want the lord to catch me singing. It just is beautiful. So that's really high on what I'm listening to right now. Dinah Wright sings Make Room.
Tim: Dated her.
Annie: Did you?
Tim: Yeah, yeah.
Emmoe: With Fosse.
Tim: Is she a girl?
Annie: So those two, and then Taylor just released, Taylor Swift just released the Taylor version of Wildest Dreams.
Emmoe: Wildest Dreams.
Annie: Wildest Dreams, what a song.
Emmoe: That's a song.
Annie: Her writing is so unstoppable.
Tim: I agree.
Chris: Also we're on a first name basis too. So it's no big deal.
Emmoe: I mean, she goes by Tay, but yes.
Annie: Right, right, right, right.
Tim: Speaking of Grease-
Annie: Not again.
Tim: Favorite movie?
Annie: My favorite movie is You've Got Mail.
Chris: Oh, I love it.
Emmoe: A classic.
Annie: So good.
Chris: Classic Meg, Classic Tom.
Annie: Teenagers do not know what to do with AOL.
Chris: I saw, was it Carlos? Was watching it the other day. Yes. Oh yeah.
Annie: I love that movie, I think it's really fun.
Tim: Yeah. So let's go watch that, because that sounds fun.
Annie: Yeah, right?
Tim: Any last things you want to say?
Annie: Anything I said wrong, do you want to fix, while we're here?
Tim: Yeah. Yeah.
Chris: I thought it was perfect.
Emmoe: No, it was great, thank you Annie.
Tim: Thank you so much.
Annie: Were we too bossy about people reading the Bible?
Tim: No, just the pet peeve part.
Annie: Oh, just the-
Tim: The late part.
Annie: Read your Bible and be on time. That's what Annie told me. I don't like her.
Emmoe: Yeah, that's fun.
Tim: Thank you, Annie.
Annie: Aw, thanks for having me. You guys are doing good work.
Emmoe: Thank you.
Annie: I am honored to be a part of it.
Tim: Okay, so this week we're going to experience and practice fun in the presence of God. So here we go. Remember to rate this podcast on whatever platform that you listen to it on. Just go and rate it. A five would be great. You can comment on this, which is super helpful for us, and super helpful for other people to see that this podcast is helpful and fun. Then would you share this podcast with other people? That would be rad. I did say rad, because I did grow up in the Orange County, California. Okay. Til next time, bye.
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