016: Grieve with Jesus and Others (Part 2)

In part 2 of our RETHINK series on grief, Carol Timmons shares the 6th stage of grief, how Jesus shows up for us and how we can show up for those who are experiencing loss.

This week’s Practice: Grieve With Jesus And Others

+ 016 Rethink Your Grief (Part 2) - Carol Timmons Transcript

Tim: Okay. Hey everybody Tim Timmons with another 10000 Minutes podcast and we're talking about grief.

Chris: Yes.

Emmoe: Yay. Grab your popcorn. Grab your Soda. It's going to be a light conversation.

Tim: This is perfect. So if you guys want to share this with your friends and go, this is the funniest podcast ever.

Emmoe: Throw that summer reading out. Okay

Tim: Yeah. or Chris how would you say it in my voice?

Chris: Grief?

Emmoe: With the eyebrows people you're missing the look. The eyebrows go up. Like it's an exclamation mark

Tim: I hate myself now. It's so good. So we are, this is going to be week two. We split up a conversation with my mom and this is week two.

Chris: Yes.

Tim: Of us rethinking grief.

Chris: Because we got into it and it's just worthy of two weeks. We didn't know. And then we started getting taught and we wanted to stay in school.

Tim: Yeah.

Emmoe: Exactly.

Tim: That's which is a rare thing. That's not what I normally want to do.

Emmoe: Yeah.

Tim: Okay. Well any who. Well, this is week two and we're about to have my mom Carol Timmons on for the second half of this. What did you guys hear in that first episode? How does that affect you and your grief and me and my grief?

Chris: So much.

Emmoe: Remember the dogs, remember the dog episode?

Tim: Yeah. Dog episode.

Emmoe: Remember when I was like, I just know I'm meant to do things alone and that's what I'm learning. I'm learning that everything, that's hard. I have to do it alone. It's like, I'm learning about permission. I have permission to not do it alone.

Chris: Yeah.

Emmoe: Like what if I shared my grief with people? What if I finally learned how to even let Jesus in on it, instead of just being like, I carry this, you carry that and we're just going to do the work together. So hearing her be like bargaining is appropriate. I was like, what? I have never heard that before. I think it was more of like bargaining is temporary. You're going to be fine.

Chris: It's like, this is going to happen to you, but we'll get through.

Emmoe: Yeah, Yeah.

Chris: Not like, no, no, no, you actually, it's good for you to do this.

Emmoe: Yeah.

Chris: It's part of the process.

Emmoe: It was like, this helps you cope. I was like, it does? I think the difference was I made a lifestyle out of it.

Tim: Right.

Chris: Oh yeah.

Emmoe: That was the hard part. So I was like, this will always be a thing. So I might as well befriend it, but I just, I gained a lot of permission and a lot of like, yeah, that makes sense. To be angry, that makes sense. To be angry in two hours and not really explain it, that makes sense. I was like, whoa, I've just never had that. And I, this year was really weird with my brother because I called someone really close to me that has always kind of understood my grief and said something so sideways that was like, you just need to get over it. And I was like, oh, you're so right I'm stuck. I just... I'm realizing how much permission I give other things. Instead of the thing I'm really living out today, which could be sadness, which could be, you know what, I really am accepting reality today. She just gave a lot of language to things I've been floating in my spirit for a long time.

Chris: She did. One of the quotes I really loved was the absence of reality is mental illness.

Tim: Right.

Chris: I was that whoa yeah, that's exactly right.

Emmoe: That rocked me.

Tim: She said grief is coming to grips with reality.

Chris: Yeah. Grief is coming to grips with reality. And the absence of reality is mental illness.

Tim: Yeah.

Emmoe: Yeah.

Chris: Yeah. I mean, that's pretty crazy when you can dumb it down to that, which is so profound, but I caught onto those same things. We're all going to grieve a little differently, but we're still going through these pieces and it's okay to go back and forth. I think one of the things I've thought about is like, well, I thought I was already past this stage or I thought I was done being angry about this and then something comes up and I'm mad about it. I'm like, what is going on? I just think she gave us some vocabulary for it. And she gave us some permission to be like, Hey, this is like normal and you need to walk through it. That was huge.

Tim: So we're going to hear the second half of this right now. It's pretty profound. There's some really great, she will reveal the the sixth-

Emmoe: The sixth.

Chris: The sixth stage.

Tim: She'll reveal the sixth stage and even talk about how Jesus fits into this stuff or how we do this with Jesus. And then how we help each other in the midst of this.

Chris: Right, which is huge because we screw that up all the time.

Tim: Yeah. All right. We're about to jump right in here and I am so thankful that I get to share my mom, Carol Timmons, the therapist, not just my mom, with the world. Hopefully this has been encouraging and this episode is so good. Before we jump in, can I just thank Andrew and Maxanne and Caitlin for jumping in financially to support this podcast and actually really what we want to do with 10000 Minutes, your finances are going towards supporting the staff, paying for the encouraging texts and pushing forward this idea that we can join Jesus all week long. By the way, if you want to get the free text messages, just text 10K to 55678, once again, 10K to 55678, or go to 10000minutes.com and you can learn how to give there or how to get other resources that might help you join Jesus all week long. Okay. So last week my mom began to go through the six stages of grief and here are just the first four that she talked about last week. Just a little recap. And then we'll jump into this week's conclusion of rethinking grief. Here we go.

Carol: Denial is a normal reaction to rationalize overwhelming emotions.

Chris: A normal reaction to rationalize.

Carol: A normal reaction to rationalize overwhelming emotions. Anger is as the numbness wears off of the pain of loss, anger takes hold and that's when we start to blame, we blame ourselves. We blame others. We lash out, whatever. The bargaining part is when we say if only, and that's the what ifs. That helps us is a temporary coping mechanism from the pain we've been in denial, been angry and it's exhausting. So we start in on bargaining. Well, if you would've, if I would've, if they would've, why didn't you? Well you should, how could you not? It gives the person sort of a time to adjust to the reality of the situation by bargaining. The bargaining, if onlys, last a long time for most people. Then the fourth one is the sadness that I was talking about and not to be mixed up with depression. It's an appropriate response to a great loss. That's sadness. It's an appropriate response to a great loss or whatever.

Chris: So we shouldn't be afraid of it.

Carol: No.

Chris: Yeah.

Carol: We have to do it. If we don't do it, it will come out again. It will surface over and over again.

Tim: Here's the second half of this conversation with my mom.

Chris: My second question. A lot of the things we've talked about here too, is like all of things we've rethought come to light the best winning community.

Carol: Yes.

Emmoe: Yeah.

Chris: And so as I think about grief, even you saying Jesus in his grief asks his friends just to be with him. When you said you grieved alone, that hit me so hard because I feel like all the times where I've been hit the, I mean, I could feel the emotion welling up, all the times when I've been hit the hardest it's like, I've grieved that by myself. Can you talk about community in grief a little bit and how you might see how that can structure and help or?

Carol: Here's a sentence to remember. Healing takes place in the context of others. True healing takes place in the context of community. I believe that our faith is vertical and it's also horizontal. So we have a vertical relationship with the Lord and then he has given us the body of Christ and that's the cross. It's vertical and horizontal. We're supposed to be living in the body of Christ. We live in the body, he wants us to live in a body. He wants us to have a vertical relationship with him first and then to live in a body. It's not just vertical. We need the body.

Tim: You need an entire podcast series on grief. I don't think anybody would actually listen to it because they'd be so depressed the whole time. But you've got, in community, I think of all the people through like my cancer journey and through so many different parts of our journey that are well meaning humans trying to help and trying to walk with people in their grief. People just don't know how to do that. Just one of the 30 things that are causing my deep sadness right now, Hillary's dad almost died a few weeks ago. Just the trauma of that. It's been, she's at the hospital every day. It's her birthday today. I mean, it's just, it keeps going but Hillary and I were together the other day and we're actually at Journey, our community church community, and somebody came up and they said, "I'm so sorry to hear about that. Well, a friend of ours had this and they are completely, their brain is dead now, so, but they're alive." And it's like, "Oh my gosh. Can you jump off a cliff please, or I'm going to push you off it." I mean, it was just-

Emmoe: The new single. But it's every time.

Tim: Yeah, yeah. With my cancer stuff, the amount of people that go, "Oh yeah, my aunt just died." You're like, "Well, why don't you shut your face." Or, "I've got a remedy for you. If you chew leather 10 times a day and stick your finger up your nose, then you'll get healed because my mom..." It's like, oh my gosh, people don't know how to do it. In a sense, mom, I'm saying then how do we help each other in grief?

Chris: But yeah, they're also going through it. They're in one of those stages. So they may be bargaining or they're like, "Ooh maybe I can find something here with him."

Tim: [Crosstalk 00:10:09] Yeah. That's true.

Emmoe: It also just sounds like empathy and sympathy are being mixed up. You can sympathize with someone and be like, man, that really sucks. Or empathize is more of like, I feel it with you. I sit with you. It could also be, because that's my experience with my friends. Sometimes they are sympathizing with me and I feel less than. So it's like a pat on my shoulder. But empathizing is like, I'm literally inside of whatever emotion or thing you're going through or whatever you're talking about. So much sympathy after a while made me not want to talk about it ever. Because I was just like, I don't want to be-

Carol: That's right.

Emmoe: Patted on. And just be like, that really sucks. I think I have a cousin who I'm like, I'm going to lose my mind.

Tim: So mom, how does one help other people in this?

Carol: Well, exactly what you're saying not to do and that is. What people are trying to do and God bless them all, but what they're trying to do is they're trying to connect with you and show you that they understand what you're talking about. So they try and give you an example of something they've experienced that maybe, but it is not helpful. It is not helpful. Silence is always the best answer. If you can't think of anything to say it's much better to just be silent and say, I care, I love you. This is-

Tim: I'm always talking about the difference between sympathy and empathy. How do you lead with empathy?

Carol: Well, I remember my aunt Ruth told me what happened when my dad died. She was a teacher and she got the news at school that my father had passed away. She told some of her teacher mates and they circled her and they said, tell us about Bob, tell us about him. What was he like? What made you so close to him? What made you love him? She said she just went on and on about how she loved my dad. She said it was the most healing thing anybody could have done.

Chris: Wow.

Carol: So I mean that's an example of empathy.

Emmoe: Yeah.

Tim: What about something that's bad? That's been hard. I mean, this is real. Somebody has some kind of sexual, I don't even know how to say that they've been assaulted in some sexual way. Right? How do you empathize with somebody like that? I have not necessarily had that experience. So how do I empathize with somebody like that?

Carol: Just be real. That's all. I can't imagine what you're going through. Don't say I know what you're going through because we seldom know what somebody else is going through. But I can't imagine it's got to hurt. I would love to be there with you. I'm not sure what to do. I just let you know I'm here. I care. I'm here.

Chris: Do you feel like grief from abuse feels different than grief from loss?

Carol: Yeah.

Chris: Like from a loved one or something like that? Do the stages look different for people? Have you seen that? Or how do people walk through those stages differently? What should we expect from ourselves of anything in those things?

Carol: I think the stages are pretty much set. I mean, that's what, those are the things that happen. Yeah. Let me just finish here. Acceptance is accepting the reality of the loss that nothing can change that reality. I come to grips with that. I'm not okay with the loss. I'm just okay with the truth of it.

Chris: Yeah.

Carol: Okay. So we've got denial, anger, bargaining, sadness, acceptance, and the R is recovery. That is for those who are living to come to grips with the reality and as we say, true grief resolves to be able to go on with their lives, knowing that it's a new normal.

Emmoe: Man and that's just been the hard part for me, I think too, because my loss comes back into it or it shows up in a different light when I experience something new that I kind of grieved or I was trying to grieve already. I think because I was 22, not married, all these things, I was grieving a future I'm not going to have with my brother. Like I'm not going to have nieces and nephews. I'm not going to have him at my wedding and so anytime things move forward in that, I'm almost triggered where I'm like, "Oh my gosh, my loss hasn't touched that part of me yet." Because I just kind of bargained with, we won't have that, but then it's like, well, life moves on. and I do want to get married and I do want to have kids and I'll have to walk through almost another round of that-

Chris: Step.

Emmoe: Of grief. Yeah. But in a different situation, a different scenario.

Chris: I feel like I felt that from an abuse angle, because that's where most of my stuff is. When I had kids, there were like weird things that freaked me out that took me back into that. And there was things like in marriage and then things I didn't even realize like that seeped into my marriage where I was like, oh my gosh, I did this to survive and now it's running my marriage and I've got to come to grips with this as an adult and in these new ways and in my relationships. As I think through grief and these things and how we accept all of it's like, wow. Yeah, grief may resolve, but it still does come up over and over and all of these stages. I guess we just learn how to navigate IT a little better each time.

Carol: Give yourself the grace to do it. Give yourself the grace to be in denial. Give yourself the grace to be in anger or in bargaining and sadness again. Even if it's a long time later.

Chris: Yeah.

Emmoe: Man. It's almost the flip of like grieving with grace. It's like giving yourself grace to grieve. That's wild.

Carol: Yes. Because what you were saying sounded like giving yourself a commandment not to grieve.

Chris: Wow.

Emmoe: Yeah.

Tim: I think that goes back to your question, Chris earlier about, can the process be thwarted by our, in quotes, religious dogma on trying to just trying be good.

Chris: We try to throw our Jesus bumper sticker on everything.

Tim: Yeah.

Emmoe: Yeah.

Chris: And get over it.

Tim: Wallpaper's over something that shouldn't be wallpapered over.

Chris: Yeah.

Carol: And Jesus is all about grace and truth. He's a balance of grace and truth. Grace and justice, grace and truth. It's not just all well it'll be all right. Romans 8:28 gets a bad rap. All things work together for good. For those who love God, what it means is all things work together. That eventually, in time, good will come. But it doesn't mean that everything works together and all things are good.

Tim: Right.

Carol: Does it.

Chris: Yep.

Carol: Some things are bad.

Chris: I also think it just-

Tim: Yes.

Chris: I mean the example Jesus gave us was not an example of a really easy bath.

Tim: Right.

Chris: Right? I mean he modeled loss.

Carol: He did.

Chris: He modeled sacrifice. He modeled grief. When we buzz over it, I'm processing this out loud right now. But it's like, we're not even following the real model that we were given.

Tim: Wow. Yeah. It's more the Christian model, the religious side of that, the gross part of that model, not the actual Jesus model.

Chris: Right.

Tim: This is a lot of psychology going on. Right? How do we do this with Jesus? There's a little bit of when I'm trying to do this forum, I'm trying to do it so I can be a good witness or I'm literally working for him. But how do I actually grieve with Jesus? I'm asking this real time, 10000 Minutes is about being aware of Jesus all week long and putting his principles into practice. What's it look like to grieve alongside of Jesus?

Carol: Okay. I do want to get to that. Let me get a couple of other thoughts in here. And then I want to get right to that.

Tim: Mom, I had one question and I feel like I.

Chris: Timothy.

Tim: Timothy.

Chris: Your mom is speaking.

Emmoe: Yeah.

Chris: Sit down.

Tim: One time she got so mad at me that she pulled out the wooden spoon, and she hit it just on the side of the, she didn't hit me with it. She wouldn't hit me, but she hit it on the side and it broke and it was a good moment. I had that moment a second ago and she just said Timothy. Yeah. All right. Well, go back there.

Carol: Well, just to say that grief comes in waves and usually people who are experiencing grief feel like, okay, I've done. I think I'm okay. I'm going and all of a sudden you'll hear a song, somebody will say a word, something happens. You have indigestion, whatever it is and a wave of grief just hits you out of the blue and you don't know what to do with it. I like to think in terms, because we live here at the ocean, it's like waves of the ocean. If you're in the ocean, what you learn early on is never put your back to the ocean. You can face it. But the best way is to go in sideways so that you've got your eye on the waves and you've got your eye on the shore. So if a wave comes and it's too big, you got to decide what to do with it.

Carol: You're going to go under it or you're going to run quick for shore. The same way with a wave of grief, you need to have some kind of a strategy. So you're either going to dive under it or you're going to run for shore. But don't be surprised that there are waves because waves come. Strategies, all different kinds of things. If you're feeling a wave of grief and you're with people, you may have to just take a deep breath and go, I'll do this in a little bit or I'll run to the restroom or whatever, but it's okay. Often it's really more okay to have a tear for guys or to actually cry for the women, because then you let it go. The only other thing I really wanted to it get out is that it's grieve, rest, distract.

Carol: When you're grieving, if there's something really heavy that you're grieving, they call it grief work because it's work. It's hard. It's exhausting. When you are grieving, this is the fourth stage in sadness. When you're grieving and you are sad, or if you're crying, you're tired. You can't grieve 24/7. You just can't. So you grieve and then you're going to have to sit back and rest, take a breath. You just got to rest. Whether you take a nap or you just sit quietly or whatever it is, and then you got to distract. You got to go to Disneyland. You have to get dinner. You have to go grocery shopping. You have to pick up the kids, you have to do something else. And then you go back and you grieve again. But you can't grieve for 24 hour, 24/7. So you have to rest, then you have to distract. It's just grieve, rest, distract. Don't think you're going to grieve it all and then be done with it. It's just a bit at a time. You just keep moving. Okay. All right. So then I will address what you are asking.

Tim: Thank you. I'm going to cut all the other stuff. So I feel like a bunch of crap.

Emmoe: No, he will not.

Tim: That's even helpful for me as a friend, walking with somebody is even helping them with the grieving, resting and distractions. That's helpful for me to know.

Carol: It's okay. You've got to. You can't even grieve and rest, grieve and rest, grieve and rest. You've got to distract a little bit. Because it's an assimilation process. You've got to assimilate. It's a new normal, you're trying to get your feet on the ground. The waves are coming. Well, I think what you're talking about is how do we bring Jesus into this? We've got to get a picture of who Jesus is. He's all grace. He's all truth. He knows us intimately. Ephesians 4 says ultimate reality is embodied in Jesus. He laughs with us, he cries with us. Why do we pretend he can't see us? He's told us to come boldly before the throne of grace to find help in time of need. Not to come shyly or excusing ourselves. [Crosstalk 00:22:56] Yeah. ].

Carol: We're supposed to come boldly before the throne of grace to find help because we need help. And he says we don't have, because we don't ask. And then he says, ask, seek and knock. So I mean, how much clearer does he need to make it? He gets us totally. God wants us in a place of dependence. That's the best place we can ever be is in a place of dependence. Sometimes we can say, "Jesus, you know, you get it. You've been there. Jesus help me."

Tim: Yeah.

Carol: When I was writing this down, just thinking about it, I was thinking of the Hymns that come to mind when I think about this. These old Hymns are such wonderful repositories of truth. I come to the garden alone and the voice I hear falling on my ear, the son of God discloses. And he walks with me and he talks with me and he tells me I am his own. And the joy we share as we tarry there, none other has ever known. And then I think about what a friend we have in Jesus, all our sins and griefs to bear. What a privilege to carry everything to God in prayer. Oh, what peace we often forfeit. Oh, what needless pain we bear. All because we do not carry everything to God in prayer.

Tim: Okay. So what did you hear in this? What stood out to you in these past two episodes? What things might you need to rethink your grief on? What's it look like for you to grieve alongside of Jesus and with other people. And then who in your life right now need you to love them through their grief. So good mom. So good.

Carol: Alright. So thoughts, questions?

Chris: Soaking it in.

Emmoe: Yeah. Yeah.

Tim: Well, I wasn't talking about grief. I was talking about briefs. That was kind of the whole being brief in conversation.

Emmoe: No.

Tim: No?

Emmoe: No.

Tim: Is that not? But it's fine. I think we've got into something cool.

Chris: No, I'm wrapping it up.

Tim: Mom. That is so good.

Emmoe: Yeah.

Tim: I mean, we could have 50 more of these.

Chris: How are you not more well adjusted today?

Tim: It's so true.

Emmoe: But I think it shows too, like even as an adult, I think the lie can be, I need to figure this out, but there's so much healing. I just need someone to be gentle with me for an hour that [inaudible 00:25:41] going to undo stuff in me. The true inner child, just being like, I just need someone to take care of me.

Carol: Yes.

Emmoe: So this was beautiful.

Carol: And it's okay. It's okay to want that. That's called comfort. So what we want to be is comfort for people who are grieving, we don't want to add to their grief. And you've talked about some ways people can add to your grief. The less said usually the better.

Chris: It's a lot of head nodding over here at our table.

Emmoe: I'm just like.

Chris: We've just been here, like yep, yep, yep. You can't see it.

Emmoe: We're probably walking through past conversations. That we're like, that accidentally shaped me and I carried that for a long time and I shouldn't have, and not that I shouldn't have, but man, it almost inspires to do that. Comfort people in their grief.

Carol: We seem to be real worried about our testimony. That if we're grieving, that maybe that's not a good testimony. No. That's not at all, Jesus grieved and he was Jesus.

Tim: Right.

Chris: Yeah.

Emmoe: Yeah.

Chris: Seems like people need to see that part of Christianity more now than ever. After the year that we've had, everybody's going through a grieving process-

Tim: Right.

Chris: At some point.

Tim: Right.

Chris: All of us are in some way. And I think people are saying, "Hey, why isn't the church acknowledging this?" "Hello. Hello." I feel like even just this conversation is so good. But as the church it's like, man, well maybe we just need to grieve better with people and with ourselves. It's given me a lot to think about.

Emmoe: This past year and a half, people still feel on pause, probably to grief because they didn't get to have their ceremonies. They didn't, I remember how powerful it was for a group of people, like a true ministry to just carry my mom because I was trying to grieve myself for the first week of things. To have people not be able to gather to honor someone is a whole different.

Tim: Right. Right.

Chris: Yeah.

Emmoe: Like repressed grief. How do we grieve now with people who from the beginning haven't had space to do so.

Carol: But you can always go back and pick up.

Chris: Yeah. That's a beautiful thing. I think about what you've talked about is it's never too late and we should always be willing to go there when it comes up.

Carol: Right.

Emmoe: Yeah. And that the stages are appropriate.

Carol: Right.

Chris: I love that. Yeah.

Emmoe: Man, that got me, like I have permission to do these things because they're helping me cope. They're not reminding me that I'm still stuck.

Tim: Awesome.

Carol: Okay.

Emmoe: Yeah. So good.

Tim: We've got a lawnmower.

Chris: He's got like a fancy thing too. I don't even know what that is. I saw it out there.

Emmoe: Is this the distract part? Did we greave, rest and now we're being distracted? God's good, God's good.

Tim: No, I mean. God's good. All time.

Emmoe: All time. God's good. He distracts.

Tim: Yeah. No we're we're about to rest. We're about to rest.

Emmoe: Yeah.

Chris: Also more in this podcast. Have we looked around and been like, I don't know what to say. That hasn't happened to us quite like yet.

Tim: Well mom, thank you. We'll have you on here again.

Emmoe: Definitely.

Chris: For sure.

Emmoe: Yes.

Tim: Talking about something else.

Chris: Actually, what do we owe you for the hour?

Tim: It's so true.

Chris: We get a family discount?

Emmoe: Just Venmo Timothy.

Tim: Yeah. I mean, and people can find you at caroltimmons.com. Is that correct?

Carol: That's true.

Tim: Gosh. I mean-

Chris: Your mom has a website?

Tim: Well, she's got a website.

Chris: Wow.

Tim: She's kind of a big deal. She's kind of a big deal. I mean, literally I get people as you can now, if you've gone through this entire podcast, you can see why I get so many emails and comments from people saying, "Your mom has saved my life."

Chris: Yeah.

Tim: It's pretty awesome.

Chris: I can see it.

Tim: And mom you know-

Carol: Bless you.

Tim: I love that about my mom. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. That's a Southern thing to say, mom, that means bad things. Bless your heart.

Carol: I didn't say bless your heart. I just said bless you.

Chris: California.

Emmoe: You know her identity. So you know she's blessing you.

Tim: Yeah. She literally is blessing me. So now you guys can see why I'm so jacked up as a human. So mom, we're going to just jump into a few little questions.

Carol: This is terrible.

Tim: I know this excites you.

Carol: You know I asked you not to do this. And I asked you to tell me, please, what the questions are ahead of time and you wouldn't do it. And I may not even answer because of that.

Chris: You're out of the will, bud.

Tim: You're out of the will.

Chris: Out of the will.

Tim: So good. Mom, they're going to be really sweet. All right. So mom you ready?

Carol: Okay. I guess so.

Tim: And this is-

Carol: I have the right to not answer?

Tim: Yeah. Of course.

Chris: Plead the fifth, I suppose.

Tim: Of course. You're in another room.

Carol: Yeah.

Tim: You can just cut off the Zoom call.

Carol: Bye.

Chris: You could always be like connection is.

Tim: Okay. Because I know you so well, motorcyclists that are driving and weaving in and out of traffic, what do you call them?

Carol: Mm. Poor souls.

Tim: No you-

Carol: I know, but-

Tim: Hot doggers.

Carol: Yes, I do.

Chris: Hot doggers.

Tim: She calls-

Carol: I do call them-

Emmoe: Hot doggers.

Tim: She calls them hot doggers

Chris: They're hot doggers.

Tim: So my sisters, I'm sure right now are just peeing their pants. I mean, so I say it all the, look at that hot dogger.

Chris: They're hot dogging. I haven't heard that phrase in a while.

Tim: Yeah.

Chris: When I'm with you. Hot dogging.

Tim: Somebody would speed past or if there's somebody that would have a loud motorcycle driving by, she'd go, "Hot dogger."

Emmoe: That is so funny.

Tim: So some people say other words, but that's what she'd say.

Chris: What does that even mean?

Tim: Yeah. What does that mean, mom?

Carol: They think there's something that they're not.

Tim: Like a hot dog.

Carol: Yeah.

Tim: Yeah.

Chris: Is that like a fifties phrase?

Carol: Yeah. Yeah. Probably. Hot dog. You know that's great. Hot dog. They think they're great.

Emmoe: Yes. We have a collection. [Inaudible 00:31:16] hot dog.

Tim: Yeah.

Emmoe: We're building on it.

Tim: Yeah. Mom actually is a part of Jeff McGuire's community, church community.

Chris: There we go. You're keeping him in check. Thank goodness.

Tim: Or she volunteers with the third graders right now? Is that where you do?

Carol: Yes.

Chris: They need some grief therapy. That's probably for sure.

Tim: Yeah, or mom does.

Chris: Yeah. That's right.

Tim: Pet peeves.

Carol: Hot doggers. Probably. Yeah.

Chris: Hot doggers.

Carol: Yeah.

Tim: I know that gets your goat.

Carol: I know it does.

Chris: What's your favorite Tim Timmon's song?

Carol: Well the.... Tim what's the name of it? The Easter song that. Uprising.

Tim: Uprising?

Chris: Good morning, Lord?

Tim: Uprising. Thank you mom.

Carol: Yes. That's my favorite.

Tim: Mom, they just made fun of the song. Good morning, Lord. On this podcast.

Chris: They're going away on this podcast.

Emmoe: Look over.

Tim: Good morning Lord, it's great to see the sun. My mom was there you guys, she was there when I wrote that song and so mom, do you know that-

Chris: When you wrote that song down.

Emmoe: That's the other use... Robert Frost wrote it?

Chris: When you transcribed it?

Tim: Yes. When I wrote the chorus and mom loved it. It's been a good moment.

Chris: The first song I ever wrote sends eerily similar to a Michael Jackson song.

Tim: Yes. It's called Beat It.

Emmoe: Like Beat It? I was going to say which one is it?

Tim: Guys you got any other questions?

Chris: Who's your favorite child?

Emmoe: Favorite child. Look we're twins. We're twins.

Tim: Well obviously it's me mom. That's-

Carol: Timothy is my favorite son.

Tim: Yes.

Emmoe: That was smooth.

Tim: That's smooth.

Emmoe: That was smooth. But blink twice if is that true?

Tim: I'm her only son people. So that's what gets so strange to this. Can you say some bad stuff about my sisters? Really quick. like what's the stuff that annoys you the most about my sisters?

Carol: Oh.

Emmoe: This might be a trap Carol. I mean, I don't know a lot of things, but in my gut, this feels like a trap.

Chris: Sounds like there's going to have to be some therapy after that question.

Tim: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Chris: Okay. One piece of advice for Tim.

Carol: Oh.

Chris: That you haven't given him before.

Carol: Let what hair you have grow.

Chris: Oh, wow.

Tim: Oh my gosh. So guys, is that a bald joke mom?

Carol: Yeah, the, not a joke, but I love you with hair. I think you have hair that you don't let grow.

Emmoe: We're here to comfort you, but don't look at us, man. This is you [inaudible 00:33:39]

Tim: I'm grieving right now. I'm going to grieve this.

Emmoe: [Inaudible 00:33:44]

Tim: Mom. That is, I love you. And that's going to be a great thing. That's coming up again. So if you guys look at my wedding pictures, I'll show you at some point my wedding pictures and Hillary and my mom somehow were in cahoots on, he should grow his hair out. When I was married at 21, 22, just 22, I was like balding, just all the things.

Chris: It was already on its way out.

Tim: I had a full on comb over at 21 and these poor people. I'm trying to look all hot in my pictures. Mom it would be so tragic.

Carol: You think so? Okay. Well I haven't seen it for a while. So.

Tim: Here's another thing that my mom says, mom, if I'm wearing a color, let's just say green. You love green on me.

Carol: Uh-huh (affirmative).

Tim: I think you love green on me. When I'm wearing that. What do you say that color just makes...

Carol: You shine.

Tim: Well you always say, sorry. I'm leading the witness right now.

Emmoe: She's like, you're not going to catch me.

Tim: No, she always says "That just sings on you."

Carol: Sings. Yes. Okay. Sings

Chris: There you go.

Tim: That just sings. So where does that come from?

Carol: It's happy.

Chris: I love it.

Emmoe: But it's layered. It has life.

Chris: I actually really love that sing is the synonym for happy.

Tim: Yeah. I mean, she'll just, "Oh, that color just sings on you."

Chris: I love it.

Emmoe: That's layered. That's layered. Because shine. That's the outward appearance. Singing, that's an expression from within.

Carol: Yeah, that's true.

Emmoe: I like that.

Chris: Deep.

Emmoe: I can't help it.

Chris: Can we have your mom on like every quarter?

Tim: They've already texted me mom. They're like, can she do this from now on? And you not? Why don't you grow your hair up for a little bit Tim and then come back to the podcast. Well screw you all okay.

Carol: I just said grow the hair you have.

Chris: There you go.

Tim: Okay.

Chris: I think he is. It's all here.

Tim: Yeah. It's on my arms. I got it. I'm nailing it.

Emmoe: Dang. That was a good one.

Tim: Okay. Well this has been really great. Let's start a new one. You want to start a new one? I don't feel like we got much on that one. We're going to start that again.

Emmoe: A little dry.

Tim: Little dry. Mom. Thank you-

Chris: I think we're okay with a long episode.

Tim: So much mom.

Chris: There's nothing to cut.

Tim: I know.

Chris: There's nothing to cut.

Emmoe: The other ones are like, Chris is all like "Okay, let's end this podcast," but this one he's like, "Let's keep going."

Chris: We're going to put everything in there and people can deal with it.

Tim: It's going to be two hours.

Chris: It's fine.

Tim: Mom. Thank you.

Carol: You're welcome.

Chris: Thank you.

Tim: So much.

Carol: Yeah, it was fun. I was nervous, but I'm not nervous now.

Chris: You knocked it out of the park.

Emmoe: Did amazing.

Tim: Yeah. We've got some notes for you as well. On ways you can improve next time.

Carol: Yes. Good.

Emmoe: No notes. No notes.

Carol: We'll talk about that.

Tim: Okay. Bye.

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